Noah's Ark and Other Survivors

[IHaveTheGift]

I realize it's difficult to imagine a world wide flood that left no traces, my own personal reasoning's even tell me that the flood didn't happen.
The OT is a hard one to chew on, however, according to all the major Historians, the NT has merit and much of it actually did happen.
It's impossible to prove Jesus rose from the dead though.

Either or, with the OT, it simply does not matter much to me if those were just stories told by men, with meaning behind them or if it all actually happened.
As for the flood, if God actually did create the earth, that leaves no doubt that he could have flooded it.

The only that really matters to me, is the brute fact I know the Holy Ghost entered my body, so something is up, with the afterlife, there are good Spirits as well as bad ones.
I have had personal experiences with both.

 

[outhouse]

the NT has merit and much of it actually did happen.

The NT has merit in a few places.

But much of it never did happen. Acts has never been accurate and contradicts what Paul tells us in many places.

So much was written by people far removed from actual events, we understand much of it not to be historical.

I have had personal experiences with both.

Which remains as a perceived personal event only.

 

[nazz]

It's a shame that some worthwhile lessons that could be learned from mythology are lost when the argument becomes is it/is it not scientific fact...
So, The Flood and the Garden of Eden could tell us valuable lessons about our past and about human nature if we could get beyond the is it/is it not science question.

agreed

 

[IHaveTheGift]

But much of it never did happen. Acts has never been accurate and contradicts what Paul tells us in many places.

I take the words of highly educated Historians that spend huge chunks of their lives studying all the data, over the opinions of one man, in a forum

Which remains as a perceived personal event only.

Your point?
Millions of people of all sorts of world views, have claims of experiences with Spirits and I simply am one of them, and being one of them, allows me to give the afterlife huge merit.
Perhaps it is beings from another dimension, maybe even Aliens from other worlds, I don't know exactly.
I do know its a brute fact of the afterlife, to me and others as well, and can not be reasoned by natural explanations, that, I do know. :yes:

 

[outhouse]

I take the words of highly educated Historians that spend huge chunks of their lives studying all the data, over the opinions of one man, in a forum

If you did, you would know that my opinion mirrors the general consensus of opinion.

 

[IHaveTheGift]

If you did, you would know that my opinion mirrors the general consensus of opinion.

Doesn't matter, we all know what opinions are like and everyone has them, including me and you.

 

[outhouse]

Doesn't matter, we all know what opinions are like and everyone has them, including me and you.

It was you that said

I take the words of highly educated Historians

What I would now ask is, did you take a handful of words? A paragraph?


Or a book or two?

 

[JayJayDee]

Why do we have other civilizations existing at that time, all over the world who report no such event?

Here is a list of the peoples of many nations who have a Flood Legend.

Can so many unrelated peoples have this one legend and it not be true?

This is samples from six continents and the islands; hundreds of such legends are known.
Australia - Kurnai
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Babylon - Berossus’ account
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Babylon - Gilgamesh epic
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Bolivia - Chiriguano
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Borneo - Sea Dayak
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Burma - Singpho
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Canada - Cree
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Canada - Montagnais
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
China - Lolo
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Cuba - original natives
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
East Africa - Masai
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Egypt - Book of the Dead
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Fiji - Walavu-levu tradition
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
French Polynesia - Raïatéa
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Greece - Lucian’s account
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Guyana - Macushi
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Iceland - Eddas
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
India - Bhil
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
India - Kamar
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Iran - Zend-Avesta
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Italy - Ovid’s poetry
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Malay Peninsula - Jakun
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Mexico - Codex Chimalpopoca
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Mexico - Huichol
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
New Zealand - Maori
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Peru - Indians of Huarochirí
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Russia - Vogul
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
U.S.A. (Alaska) - Kolusches
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
U.S.A. (Alaska) - Tlingit
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
U.S.A. (Arizona) - Papago
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
U.S.A. (Hawaii) - legend of Nu-u
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Vanuatu - Melanesians
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Vietnam - Bahnar
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Wales - Dwyfan/Dwyfach legend
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Coincidence? Did you notice 4 in the USA?

 

[Looncall]

Here is a list of the peoples of many nations who have a Flood Legend.

Can so many unrelated peopleshave this one legend and it not be true?

This is samples from six continents and the islands; hundreds of such legends are known.
Australia - Kurnai
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Babylon - Berossus’ account
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Babylon - Gilgamesh epic
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Bolivia - Chiriguano
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Borneo - Sea Dayak
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Burma - Singpho
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Canada - Cree
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Canada - Montagnais
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
China - Lolo
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Cuba - original natives
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
East Africa - Masai
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Egypt - Book of the Dead
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Fiji - Walavu-levu tradition
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
French Polynesia - Raïatéa
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Greece - Lucian’s account
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Guyana - Macushi
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Iceland - Eddas
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
India - Bhil
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
India - Kamar
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Iran - Zend-Avesta
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Italy - Ovid’s poetry
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Malay Peninsula - Jakun
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Mexico - Codex Chimalpopoca
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Mexico - Huichol
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
New Zealand - Maori
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Peru - Indians of Huarochirí
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Russia - Vogul
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
U.S.A. (Alaska) - Kolusches
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
U.S.A. (Alaska) - Tlingit
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
U.S.A. (Arizona) - Papago
Destruction by Water
Warning Given
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
U.S.A. (Hawaii) - legend of Nu-u
Destruction by Water
Divine Cause
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Vanuatu - Melanesians
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Vietnam - Bahnar
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel
Wales - Dwyfan/Dwyfach legend
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

Coincidence? Did you notice 4 in the USA?

Considering people moved from one place to another, this is not surprising.

You must still account for the absence of any physical or genetic evidence of a worldwide flood and for the continuity of ancient civilizations. If these objections cannot be countered, an honest person must admit that the bible account is merely myth.

 

[Skwim]

Here is a list of the peoples of many nations who have a Flood Legend.

Can so many unrelated peopleshave this one legend and it not be true?

This is samples from six continents and the islands; hundreds of such legends are known.
Australia - Kurnai
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel . . . .

. . . . . Wales - Dwyfan/Dwyfach legend
Destruction by Water
Humans Spared
Animals Spared
Preserved in a Vessel

But I see no source references, only Watchtower pronouncements. Moreover it goes straight to silly with this ridiculous explanation:

"Where Did the Floodwaters Go?

Evidently they are right here on earth. Today there is about 1.4 billion cu km (326 million cu mi) of water on the earth. It covers more than 70 percent of the globe’s surface. The average depth of the oceans is 4 km (2.5 mi); average elevation of the land is only 0.8 km (0.5 mi) above sea level. If the earth’s surface was smoothed out, it would all be covered with water to a depth of 2,400 m (8,000 ft)"
source

​

I know Biblical literalists have their backs up against the wall trying to explain some of the Bible's more absurd stories, but this one has got to take the cake.

 

[averageJOE]

Since the water came from under the earth as well as from above it, (Gen 7:11) it stands to reason that when you extract something from under the earth, it leaves a void. When oil is extracted from under the earth, it leaves a chasm that is today pumped full of sea water. It is hardly a substitute and one has to wonder why God put oil in there in the first place...it certainly wasn't for the purpose of providing polluting fossil fuels for greedy humans. Perhaps it was for the lubrication of the earth's massive plates and may explain the frequency of today's terrible earthquakes, which were also foretold for our time. (Matt 24:7)

Water is extremely heavy. It could easily have buckled the earth's crust and changed the landscape considerably when the vast reserves of underground water came to the surface? I am speculating here as we have no details about such things in the Bible.

But, consider this info....

You just gave two reasons as to why ALL aquatic life would have been killed.

 

[JayJayDee]

But I see no source references, only Watchtower pronouncements.

You could try Wiki. Look up "List of flood myths" pretty much the same info.

I know Biblical literalists have their backs up against the wall trying to explain some of the Bible's more absurd stories, but this one has got to take the cake.

You can eat all the cake you like Skwim.....makes no difference to me.

 

[JayJayDee]

You just gave two reasons as to why ALL aquatic life would have been killed.

Why is that? An explanation would be good.

It was only air breathing land animals that were preserved in the ark. It wasn't a floating aquarium.

 

[outhouse]

Here is a list of the peoples of many nations who have a Flood Legend.

Can so many unrelated peoples have this one legend and it not be true?

This is samples from six continents and the islands; hundreds of such legends are known.
[

Coincidence? Did you notice 4 in the USA?

Because it floods and kills people everywhere in the world, every year.

And ancient people who knew no better blamed it on spirits and gods ect ect



YOU purposely ignored my post where I carefully explained where the Israelites flood mythology comes from.

There was a huge regional flood.


In 2900 BC the Euphrates factually overflowed and it was a terrible devastating flood for anyone near its banks. Meters of flood silt have been found.

Soon after that we have the epic of Ziusudra who went down the river on a barge loaded with goods who landed next to a hill and made a sacrifice. Some words match the biblical text

Soon after we have the Akkadian version who mentions two by two and also has some of the biblical text.

Then after that we have the Babylonian version that also has more of the biblical version, this flood also turned into a sea deluge instead of a river flood.


Then we have the later Israelites version that was based on these previous version that was a global deluge, and guess what!!!!!!!!

It was while the Israelites were in Mesopotamia where the original legends originated!

The Israelites even states that is where their Noah and legend comes from.


There is no mystery here at all

Only the refusal of some theist to accept historical reality

 

[Ouroboros]

Here is a list of the peoples of many nations who have a Flood Legend.

Can so many unrelated peoples have this one legend and it not be true?

... so you're saying that they all are true? In every aspect? They must if they're all true. So all those gods exist. And all those "noahs" of many different names survived. And all those boats were built. And they all landed on different mountains in different parts of the world.

Coincidence? Did you notice 4 in the USA?

Since there's no evidence to support a global flood in the geological record, and all of those stories can't be true at the same time since they're referring to different people, different boats, different places, and different gods simultaneously, I suggest that the answer is something else.

 

[Iti oj]

Why is that? An explanation would be good.

It was only air breathing land animals that were preserved in the ark. It wasn't a floating aquarium.

ok well marine animals are very senstive to the chemical make up, temperature and salinity of the water they live in.

 

[Ouroboros]

Why is that? An explanation would be good.

It was only air breathing land animals that were preserved in the ark. It wasn't a floating aquarium.

What about bugs, virus, bacteria, etc? They were all on the boat too?

 

[Skwim]

You could try Wiki. Look up "List of flood myths" pretty much the same info.

Thank you, but I don't have the inclination. Just pointing out the lack of substantiation in the piece----although I do recognize the Watchtower's expectation to be taken at its word.

 

[averageJOE]

Why is that? An explanation would be good.

It was only air breathing land animals that were preserved in the ark. It wasn't a floating aquarium.

Read your own post.

 

[nazz]

You could try Wiki. Look up "List of flood myths" pretty much the same info.

Well, not exactly. It's certainly true there are flood myths found all over the world but despite varying degrees of similarity they are not identical. And their existence certainly does not prove the biblical account is accurate.