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Noah's Ark

Gomeza

Member
Why is it necessary to believe in such a literal interpretation of the Bible such that one has to subvert logic and reason to maintain ones beliefs ?

I have to agree with earlier comments applauding this thread, especially the question you pose.

As the common knowledge base of our species began growing exponentially over the last several decades, the reconciliation of ancient religious texts with our increasing knowledge has become more and more difficult. Reverse methodology (manipulating facts to suit a predetermined conclusion) is the only means remaining of achieving this reconciliation. When so many people are engaged in this effort, the reconciliation gains its own momentum, eventually leading to enormous segments of society who wouldn't know the truth if it bit them on the behind.
 

Oryonder

Active Member
I have to agree with earlier comments applauding this thread, especially the question you pose.

As the common knowledge base of our species began growing exponentially over the last several decades, the reconciliation of ancient religious texts with our increasing knowledge has become more and more difficult. Reverse methodology (manipulating facts to suit a predetermined conclusion) is the only means remaining of achieving this reconciliation. When so many people are engaged in this effort, the reconciliation gains its own momentum, eventually leading to enormous segments of society who wouldn't know the truth if it bit them on the behind.

The ice cores from the Poles are over 200,000 years old and dated 3 different ways.
The most reliable is counting the layers .. just like tree rings.

There is some error but it is in the order of 1-2%.

Obviously evolution from Caucasion to Chinese does not happen over a period of couple of hundred years .. which pretty much would have had to happen were there any veracity in the Noah story.

What gets even more humorous is that "somehow" these folks would have had to produced not only Chinese but Black, South American, European, Indian and all the other races.

The people supporting this theory are an embarassement to human intelect and to America. Christians in other countries do not take creationism seriously en mass.
 

camanintx

Well-Known Member
What gets even more humorous is that "somehow" these folks would have had to produced not only Chinese but Black, South American, European, Indian and all the other races.
What's really funny is that the same people who believe that all races and all species descended from what was carried on Noah's ark just 4,000 years ago will also tell you that evolution over millions of years is impossible.
 

Zoe Doidge

Basically a Goddess
Oh dear, my calculations show the flood would have required a mere 9.23M of rain per hour for 40 days.
 

Road Warrior

Seeking the middle path..
Why is it necessary to believe in such a literal interpretation of the Bible such that one has to subvert logic and reason to maintain ones beliefs ?

iqevolution.jpg
 

shawn001

Well-Known Member
They have to use assumptions in their dating methods.

Man of faith explain to us Paleoclimitology and ice core samples? What do they tell us and how does it work?

also

It has not rained in parts of the Atacama desert in chile for 23 million years. A type of rock there called "Gypsum rock" melts in water. An exposed outcrop there has not been exposed to enough water to melt the rock in 23 million years. The desert is 150 million years old and formed by plate techtonic, with the pacific plate pushing agaisnt the South American plate.

"

Driest Place on Earth


The Atacama desert is considered the driest place on Earth. Since human records of the area began, some places have never received rain. But the records don't stop there--the Atacama is also the oldest desert in the world, and recently it has been dated to an amazing 150 million years old. Other research shows that the surface of this desert is also incredibly ancient, with boulders lying there that have not moved for over 23 million years--more than 50 times longer than it's taken for our human species to evolve. The soil is so dry, it has been used as a test bed for the Mars rovers. And though the desert was once thought to be completely lifeless, strange bacteria discovered there have given scientists new hope that they might find life on the red planet. Atacama is also home to the largest copper mine in the world. Inspect the riddle of the Atacama and uncover how this extraordinarily dry landscape was created. "

How The Earth Was Made — Season 2 Episode Guide — History.com

Geologic Proof there was no global flood, in fact there is a ton of proof.

WE have also used Paleoclimitology and ice core samples going back a million years that tell us how much it rained, what gases were in the atmophere, even volcanic ash and more, including oxygen.

Nasa

"
To pry climate clues out of the ice, scientists began to drill long cores out of the ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica in the late 1960s. By the time Alley and the GISP2 project finished in the early 1990s, they had pulled a nearly 2-mile-long core (3,053.44 meters) from the Greenland ice sheet, providing a record of at least the past 110,000 years. Even older records going back about 750,000 years have come out of Antarctica. Scientists have also taken cores from thick mountain glaciers in places such as the Andes Mountains in Peru and Bolivia, Mount Kilimanjaro in Tanzania, and the Himalayas in Asia."

"The ice cores can provide an annual record of temperature, precipitation, atmospheric composition, volcanic activity, and wind patterns. In a general sense, the thickness of each annual layer tells how much snow accumulated at that location during the year. Differences in cores taken from the same area can reveal local wind patterns by showing where the snow drifted. More importantly, the make-up of the snow itself can tell scientists about past temperatures. As with marine fossils, the ratio of oxygen isotopes in the snow reveals temperature, though in this case, the ratio tells how cold the air was at the time the snow fell. In snow, colder temperatures result in higher concentrations of light oxygen. (See The Oxygen Balance.)

Paleoclimatology: The Ice Core Record : Feature Articles


No global flood for a fact. There is a ton more evidence all over the world there was never a flood.

It was probably a localized flood in Mesopotamia written by the Sumerians first.
 

Oryonder

Active Member
Man of faith explain to us Paleoclimitology and ice core samples? What do they tell us and how does it work?

also

It has not rained in parts of the Atacama desert in chile for 23 million years. A type of rock there called "Gypsum rock" melts in water. An exposed outcrop there has not been exposed to enough water to melt the rock in 23 million years. The desert is 150 million years old and formed by plate techtonic, with the pacific plate pushing agaisnt the South American plate.

"
Driest Place on Earth


The Atacama desert is considered the driest place on Earth. Since human records of the area began, some places have never received rain. But the records don't stop there--the Atacama is also the oldest desert in the world, and recently it has been dated to an amazing 150 million years old. Other research shows that the surface of this desert is also incredibly ancient, with boulders lying there that have not moved for over 23 million years--more than 50 times longer than it's taken for our human species to evolve. The soil is so dry, it has been used as a test bed for the Mars rovers. And though the desert was once thought to be completely lifeless, strange bacteria discovered there have given scientists new hope that they might find life on the red planet. Atacama is also home to the largest copper mine in the world. Inspect the riddle of the Atacama and uncover how this extraordinarily dry landscape was created. "

How The Earth Was Made — Season 2 Episode Guide — History.com

Geologic Proof there was no global flood, in fact there is a ton of proof.

WE have also used Paleoclimitology and ice core samples going back a million years that tell us how much it rained, what gases were in the atmophere, even volcanic ash and more, including oxygen.

Nasa

"
To pry climate clues out of the ice, scientists began to drill long cores out of the ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica in the late 1960s. By the time Alley and the GISP2 project finished in the early 1990s, they had pulled a nearly 2-mile-long core (3,053.44 meters) from the Greenland ice sheet, providing a record of at least the past 110,000 years. Even older records going back about 750,000 years have come out of Antarctica. Scientists have also taken cores from thick mountain glaciers in places such as the Andes Mountains in Peru and Bolivia, Mount Kilimanjaro in Tanzania, and the Himalayas in Asia."

"The ice cores can provide an annual record of temperature, precipitation, atmospheric composition, volcanic activity, and wind patterns. In a general sense, the thickness of each annual layer tells how much snow accumulated at that location during the year. Differences in cores taken from the same area can reveal local wind patterns by showing where the snow drifted. More importantly, the make-up of the snow itself can tell scientists about past temperatures. As with marine fossils, the ratio of oxygen isotopes in the snow reveals temperature, though in this case, the ratio tells how cold the air was at the time the snow fell. In snow, colder temperatures result in higher concentrations of light oxygen. (See The Oxygen Balance.)

Paleoclimatology: The Ice Core Record : Feature Articles


No global flood for a fact. There is a ton more evidence all over the world there was never a flood.

It was probably a localized flood in Mesopotamia written by the Sumerians first.

It is no coincidence that the Sumerians have flood stories that predate Noah. Almost everyone living in Mesopotamia at the time would have heard this story in one form or another.

There is also a creation story in the ancient Sumerian "atrahasis text". This story gives how man was created in much more detail than in Genesis. Clay is used by the God(s) in the both the Sumerian and Genesis stories.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
It is no coincidence that the Sumerians have flood stories that predate Noah. Almost everyone living in Mesopotamia at the time would have heard this story in one form or another.

There is also a creation story in the ancient Sumerian "atrahasis text". This story gives how man was created in much more detail than in Genesis. Clay is used by the God(s) in the both the Sumerian and Genesis stories.

yes and dont forget the name is Adamu


no one doubts that mesopotamians migrated to Israel and brought with them their legends.


its just about unanimously accepted by all scholars
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Archeaology tells us that there were continuous societies throughout this period in China, Africa, Egypt, Mesopotamia, Europe, South America and so on.

How is it possible that these numerous societies comprised of diverse races existed throughout the time period of the flood when all but Noah and family were supposedly wiped out.

what i would say is that we need to look for evidence of the flood account in those very ancient civilisations. The fact is we do find such evidence that those civilizations do have legends of a similar event. If none of those civilizations had such legends, then perhaps we'd need to ask why, but the fact that they do have the same stories indicates that their ancestors were aware, or were at least deeply affected, by such a story.

Manu is the character in the Hindu myth found in the Satapatha-Brahmana.
“In the morning they brought to Manu [mankind’s ancestor and first lawgiver] water for washing . . . When he was washing himself, a fish [Vishnu in his incarnation as Matsya] came into his hands.
“It spoke to him the word, ‘Rear me, I will save thee!’ ‘Wherefrom wilt thou save me?’ ‘A flood will carry away all these creatures: from that I will save thee!’ ‘How am I to rear thee?’”
The fish instructed Manu on how to care for him. “Thereupon it said, ‘In such and such a year that flood will come. Thou shalt then attend to me (to my advice) by preparing a ship; and when the flood has risen thou shalt enter into the ship, and I will save thee from it.’”
Manu followed the fish’s instructions, and during the flood the fish pulled the ship to a “northern mountain. It then said, ‘I have saved thee. Fasten the ship to a tree; but let not the water cut thee off, whilst thou art on the mountain. As the water subsides, thou mayest gradually descend!’”
—

Utnapishtim is the flood survivor mentioned in the Akkadian Epic of Gilgamesh. He is the one who tells Gilgamesh the story of the flood. As found in Epic tablet XI, known as the Flood Tablet, Utnapishtim recounts instructions given to him concerning the flood: “Tear down (this) house, build a ship! Give up possessions, seek thou life. . . . Aboard the ship take thou the seed of all living things.”

Yü is the survivor of the flood in Chinese myths called “Period of the Great Ten”. He is said to be an ancient ruler of China who was “the conqueror of the Great Flood. Yü channeled flood waters into rivers and seas to resettle his people.” Some have noted the similarities in the old Sumerian king list because this myth speaks of an age where 10 emperors/kings ruled until there was a great flood which which brought in a new era.

Ziusudra is the survivor mentioned in the Sumerian myth about the flood. He is described as a pious, a god-fearing king.... and the Babylonian and Assyrian civilizations, which came later, were influenced by the Sumerians so there are links.

the South American Aztec mythology spoke of four previous ages, during the first of which the earth was inhabited by giants. (That is another reminder of the Nephilim, the giants referred to in the Bible at Genesis 6:4.) It included a primeval flood legend in which “the waters above merge with those below, obliterating the horizons and making of everything a timeless cosmic ocean.” The god controlling rain and water was Tlaloc. However, his rain was not obtained cheaply but was given “in exchange for the blood of sacrificed victims whose flowing tears would simulate and so stimulate the flow of rain.”

the Maya in Mexico and Central America had their Flood legend that involved a universal deluge, or haiyococab, which means “water over the earth.”


So we can find evidence that these cultures may not be as old as the flood because in all these legends the flood wiped out those who lived before them. According to their accounts, their civilizations are founded 'after' the event. And we need to also consider that the dating of such cites may not necessarily be accurate.
The fact that these stories are being retold by 'seemingly' unrelated nations may be evidence that these nations are not as 'unrelated' as we might think.



Even if the date is off by hundreds of years it is still not possible for genetic diversity and to have created these different races in such a short period of time. Some cultures such as the Sumerians and Egyptians are continuous from 3500 BC (no gap where everyone was wiped out).

you are looking at it from the perspective that these civilisations existed before the flood happened and that just may not be correct. When a civilization is just starting out, it usually starts with only a small group of people...not a 'civilization' as such... cities would have began as small compounds with only a cluster of camps. The genesis account says that Cain built a 'city' when he was sent away with only his one wife.

What if these civilisations developed after the flood? Then we would not expect to see a gap in their existence but we certainly would expect to see their legends and myths include that story.... and that is exactly what we find.
 
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Oryonder

Active Member
yes and dont forget the name is Adamu


no one doubts that mesopotamians migrated to Israel and brought with them their legends.


its just about unanimously accepted by all scholars

I have read the atrahasis text and indeed the term for the first humans created by the Sumerian Gods was "Adamu"
 
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