Noahs Ark

[David69]

How did they fit a pair of Brontosaurus on the ark? Where do these lifeforms fit into the Bible? I've not seen a reference.

maybe they were extinct by then

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Any point which goes against a belief pattern is made a non issue by that belief pattern.

No...any point made by you which is not in keeping with the flow of this thread is a non issue....

Perhaps not to you...... Guess what, some people do not believe you.

That's the whole point of this thread. The creationist here are not concerned with the evidence against their beliefs. Evidence in the form of tangible testable evidence appears to mean nothing to them. Evidence in the form of archeological findings, geological findings, anthropological findings......seem to mean nothing to them. Or so it would appear when the evidence flies in the face of their beliefs.

If I were challenging the existence of the biblical Yeshua...they would in no doubt dig into this same pile of professionals we have presented to them and say, as they have in other various threads here, that (there is an overwhelming amount of evidence in support of Jesus and that almost all scholars agree he existed). This claim to fame is done by scholars piecing together the historicity of Jesus but in the case of a WWF we have detailed geological data that says this type of event never happened in the time line given to us by creationist. Archeology as well as Anthropology disagrees with them. These are the same sciences used when they want to validate their case for the stories they believe in..... out of the bible but reject these same sciences when they disagree with their claims....That is is the meaning of double standard.

Just not valid to you, and your creationist type belief pattern.

What are you talking about? I don't have a "creationist type belief pattern".....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Oh, I see the problem. You have absolutely no idea what the Theory of Evolution says. Would you like to learn, or do you prefer to continue to disbelieve a non-existent theory?

Why bother?.......haven't you already engaged rusra02 in the threads on evolution? And wasn't he as clueless on the subject there as he is here?......

 

[Dirty Penguin]

maybe they were extinct by then

Unfortunately that not what creationist believe.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/media/video/ondemand/bible-explains-dinosaurs/bible-explains-dinosaurs......

:sad4:

Two and a half minutes in I started to get upset. About 15 minutes in a was sick to my stomach......This nonsense they actually believe.

 

[David69]

Unfortunately that not what creationist believe.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/media/video/ondemand/bible-explains-dinosaurs/bible-explains-dinosaurs......

:sad4:

Two and a half minutes in I started to get upset. About 15 minutes in a was sick to my stomach......This nonsense they actually believe.

wrong!... the nonsence they are trying to get us to beleive lol

When I rule the world I'll show the manipulators extinction... first hand heh heh heh!

 

[challupa]

Unfortunately that not what creationist believe.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/media/video/ondemand/bible-explains-dinosaurs/bible-explains-dinosaurs......

:sad4:

Two and a half minutes in I started to get upset. About 15 minutes in a was sick to my stomach......This nonsense they actually believe.

This stuff is truly sickening!

How can people believe this nonsense?

 

[AxisMundi]

This stuff is truly sickening!

How can people believe this nonsense?

Indoctrination of the young.

Pound this crap into a kid from the moment they can understand simple concepts right through till puberty, and voilà, you have a YECer.

This is the main reason bible-thumpers keep trying to force their religion into public school curriculum. They simply can't indoctrinate enough in church and parochial schools apparently.

 

[AxisMundi]

So, lets check our Noah's Check List...

Enough water on the planet? No

Someone living for 900 years? No

Said ancient able to build a craft some 450x75x45 feet using the wood available in that part of the world? No

Said unwieldy craft (do a barrel roll!) able to hold tens of millions of animals, birds, fish, insects and reptiles? No

Said craft also able to hold the food necessary to feed said life forms for several years, including not only grains but raw meat as well? No

Said craft also being able to carry the millions of tons of seeds/plantings to reforest the planet? No

All life forms living within swimming, walking, flying distance? No

Hmm, did I miss anything?

 

[footprints]

No...any point made by you which is not in keeping with the flow of this thread is a non issue....

It shouldn't be in line with the thread, they were answers to questions you raised

That's the whole point of this thread. The creationist here are not concerned with the evidence against their beliefs. Evidence in the form of tangible testable evidence appears to mean nothing to them. Evidence in the form of archeological findings, geological findings, anthropological findings......seem to mean nothing to them. Or so it would appear when the evidence flies in the face of their beliefs.

This is the point of this thread; "How did they fit a pair of Brontosaurus on the ark? Where do these lifeforms fit into the Bible? I've not seen a reference." Not some discussion you want to have and keep relating to.

There are many more fields of science to consider than the fields you have listed, we have discussed this before.

If I were challenging the existence of the biblical Yeshua...they would in no doubt dig into this same pile of professionals we have presented to them and say, as they have in other various threads here, that (there is an overwhelming amount of evidence in support of Jesus and that almost all scholars agree he existed). This claim to fame is done by scholars piecing together the historicity of Jesus but in the case of a WWF we have detailed geological data that says this type of event never happened in the time line given to us by creationist. Archeology as well as Anthropology disagrees with them. These are the same sciences used when they want to validate their case for the stories they believe in..... out of the bible but reject these same sciences when they disagree with their claims....That is is the meaning of double standard.

The whole world being flooded has many meanings.

I would suggest double standards being, when people want to use science to prove a point, then deny science when a point goes against them.

What are you talking about? I don't have a "creationist type belief pattern".....

Don't You?

 

[footprints]

Speaking of ignorance...

Abiogenesis and Evolution are two distinctly different topics. The former deals with how life formed, the latter deals with how life evolved to present day examples.

Evolution has centuries of investigation and peer review, libraries jamb packed full of data, and museums stocked to the rafters with hard physical evidence.

Sorry, but Evolution is a proven fact.

While abiogenesis is still under investigation, many inroads have been made into illustrating how life began on the planet. Considering that the early Earth wasn't the lifeless rock many anti-evolutionists contend, it is only a matter of time before one of the many hypothesis is proven correct.

Amino acids, the most basic building blocks of life, are among the most abundant substances in the Universe. Hydrogen and Oxygen, the components of water, are, repectfully, the two most abundant gases in the Universe.

The only question that remains is how these conditions evolved very simple life forms that eventually Evolved into life as we know it today.

Speaking of Ignorance.......

So evolutionists want to jump into the middle and not discuss the whole picture. Guess what Axis, a lot transpired before life evolved on this planet, and without the whole picture, evolution just wouldn't exist. You may be able to fool yourself that Evolution is the Alpha and the Omega, but it is only yourself you are fooling.

Evolution is a Power of Suggestion based on perceived facts.

 

[footprints]

So, lets check our Noah's Check List...

Enough water on the planet? No

Someone living for 900 years? No

Said ancient able to build a craft some 450x75x45 feet using the wood available in that part of the world? No

Said unwieldy craft (do a barrel roll!) able to hold tens of millions of animals, birds, fish, insects and reptiles? No

Said craft also able to hold the food necessary to feed said life forms for several years, including not only grains but raw meat as well? No

Said craft also being able to carry the millions of tons of seeds/plantings to reforest the planet? No

All life forms living within swimming, walking, flying distance? No

Hmm, did I miss anything?

What a warped perception, where did you get this rubbish from. No wonder you cannot discuss this subject logically.

 

[Valjean]

but no-one investigating it is proposing an effect without a cause or something from nothing. The point is, that is what evolution proponents are doing when they say the remarkable, nay, astounding complexity in even the smallest living organism happened without a cause. Then compound this to say all the complexity, complexity we are only at the beginning of understanding, is the product of blind chance. THEN argue that ToE proponents are not saying God didn't start life... Sorry, I'm too far down the rabbit hole as it is. Time to climb back to the light of day.

No, no, no! That is not what ToE says. Happened without a cause? Where'd you get that? Evolution doesn't say that -- Creationism says that! You're attributing your own doctrines to the ToE!
Product of blind chance?! Again, where'd you get that? Evolutionary changes are steered -- by environment, they're selected for, and the ToE explores the mechanisms by which this happens.

In re: Noah's arc, I'll re-post this earlier link: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html

 

[Dirty Penguin]

It shouldn't be in line with the thread, they were answers to questions you raised

Then maybe I've forgotten the question(s) I asked. I remember the one about the "Out of Africa theory".....

This is the point of this thread; "How did they fit a pair of Brontosaurus on the ark? Where do these lifeforms fit into the Bible? I've not seen a reference." Not some discussion you want to have and keep relating to.

Right...now did you miss the part where I said his question had already been answered? In fact his question had been answered long before you joined the debate. But the thread theme progressed beyond that and that's where we are now. We've discussed, at length, the waters from the sky, the animals on the boat, the boat itself, the obvious copy/edit job the story is, local flooding vs. global flooding....Where we are now is evidence for said flood and the historicity of various cultures who didn't realize they were under water during the time of said flood.

There are many more fields of science to consider than the fields you have listed, we have discussed this before.

Yes and as it stands Geology and Archeology are a great place to start. These two fields alone have amassed an enormous mount of data and evidence that flies in the face of a WWF. Why would one even consider another area of science if he or she hasn't even taken the time to learn what these two areas say about the natural world? In fact...what other areas should we consider in your opinion? I threw in Anthropology because it compliments these two sciences quite well.

The whole world being flooded has many meanings.

Yes it does and we've gone over this time and time again. Just recently two or three creationist posting here came right out asserting a literal WWF and going as far as offering a date of said flood. So although there are other flood myths with varying meanings...we, for the sake of this debate here, are only responding to the claim of the one contained in the bible.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/1872285-post1457.html
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/1875679-post1475.html

I would suggest double standards being, when people want to use science to prove a point, then deny science when a point goes against them.

I agree and that is what I said in my previous post. I've been using the science. That I know of the science has not disagreed with me but on the contrary it has shown no evidence for a WWF in the time frame creationist "here" have laid out and the other areas of science have shown civilizations in existence. I know, you want to talk about local flooding, other flood stories, trying to interpret what the bible might be trying to say, other realities and belief patterns and all that but that's not what ANY of the creationist here are talking about. You're perfectly welcome to respond to one or all of them with that but I doubt you will encounter agreement to your assertions.....Oh wait, that's right..."YOU" don't care what creationist believe......Oh well, I guess all you have is me to play with......

Don't You?

Uhh....no I don't. I don't have a "creationist type belief pattern"......

 

[Tiapan]

Some state the WWF occured 2370 BC/BCE

Bible chronology [2370 BC/BCE] and Genesis gives us the exact location, precise time and exactly what type of Flood. - Genesis 7:11,19,20; 8:3-5, 13,14

This was during the Egyptian period of the "The Old Kingdom" 2650-2134 BC/BDE. The period when the pyramids were built. If there was WWF shouldn't we see a watermark on the pyramids? And how come the Egyptians survived? Maybe they all stood at the top of the pyramid for 40 days.

http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/EGYPT/OLD.HTM

While the unification of Egypt in the Archaic period was the single most important event in Egyptian history, it was a long and drawn-out affair. Although Narmer is credited with unifying the country, all the kings of the first two dynasties had to fight constant wars against considerable opponents all along the Nile. But the third dynasty of Egyptian kings began powerfully; the second king of that dynasty, a man named Netcheriche or Djoser (or Zoser) became powerful enough to control the whole of the country. Egypt had, meanwhile, prospered and grown beyond everyone's wildest dreams. Agricultural production had been revolutionized by the building of massive irrigation projects; trade had ballooned to super-human proportions; the population had swelled exponentially. Suddenly Egypt found itself wealthy; the country literally exploded with creativity for the next several generations. This period,from 2650-2134, the Old Kingdom, was the richest and most creative period in Egyptian history. All the pyramids were built at this time; the growth in population and wealth allowed the kings to apportion vast amounts of labor and materials to these monuments to themselves.

Cheers

 

[gnostic]

And how come the Egyptians survived? Maybe they all stood at the top of the pyramid for 40 days.

That strikes me of being very funny. A funny image of an Egyptian on his tippy-toes on the pyramid's apex just suddenly pop into my head. :biglaugh:

 

[rusra02]

No, no, no! That is not what ToE says. Happened without a cause? Where'd you get that? Evolution doesn't say that -- Creationism says that! You're attributing your own doctrines to the ToE!
Product of blind chance?! Again, where'd you get that? Evolutionary changes are steered -- by environment, they're selected for, and the ToE explores the mechanisms by which this happens.

In re: Noah's arc, I'll re-post this earlier link: Problems with a Global Flood, 2nd edition

So all the astounding complexity of life occurs because of... the environment? A small bird can migrate thousands of miles unerringly to a nesting site because the environment caused this? Owls can fly virtually soundlessly because the environment selected them to do this? I could go on and on. Sorry, that plow doesn't scour, as Abe Lincoln used to say. As to people who believe in Creation (I am NOT a creationist in the sense I don't believe that God created the earth in 6 24-hour days 6,000 years ago) not believing creation happened without a cause, that's simply not true. We believe God created the heavens and the earth, as Genesis 1:1 confirms.

 

[gnostic]

A small bird can migrate thousands of miles unerringly to a nesting site because the environment caused this?

And you think God plotted the course for a bird to find the nest?

Sorry, that plow certainly doesn't scour...

Where are your evidence that god have any involvement of where the bird fly?

Do you really think bird are that stupid.

Owls can fly virtually soundlessly because the environment selected them to do this?

And you think they can't?

Every animals have to adapt so they can survive. Even the weakest of creature, would have some sort of strength that they can rely on, to get by. They do this by hiding. I have seen lizard that can change color of its hide, so that predator can't find them, but at the same time, it catch its own prey.

I have seen evidences where tortoises can only find their food close to the ground, but on another island, a very short distance away (I am referring to Galápagos Islands), their shell allow the tortoises to crank and stretch their neck up, to reach their food higher off the ground, which the other tortoises could not hope to reach.

Why is that?

Because they have learned adapt because of their environment. You think they don't?

Do you think the polar bear lived in the arctic region simply by chance? Or is it because they adapt to the condition in their area?

Are you blind?

 

[Forkie]

And you think God plotted the course for a bird to find the nest?

Sorry, that plow certainly doesn't scour...

Where are your evidence that god have any involvement of where the bird fly?

Do you really think bird are that stupid.


And you think they can't?

Every animals have to adapt so they can survive. Even the weakest of creature, would have some sort of strength that they can rely on, to get by. They do this by hiding. I have seen lizard that can change color of its hide, so that predator can't find them, but at the same time, it catch its own prey.

I have seen evidences where tortoises can only find their food close to the ground, but on another island, a very short distance away (I am referring to Galápagos Islands), their shell allow the tortoises to crank and stretch their neck up, to reach their food higher off the ground, which the other tortoises could not hope to reach.

Why is that?

Because they have learned adapt because of their environment. You think they don't?

Do you think the polar bear lived in the arctic region simply by chance? Or is it because they adapt to the condition in their area?

Are you blind?

Here, here.

 

[johnhanks]

So all the astounding complexity of life occurs because of... the environment? A small bird can migrate thousands of miles unerringly to a nesting site because the environment caused this? Owls can fly virtually soundlessly because the environment selected them to do this?

My, it's been days since anyone posted a good old-fashioned Argument from Incredulity.

I could go on and on.

We believe you.

 

[johnhanks]

In what year did [Rawlinson] make that remark?

I tried to track this down myself, but was unable to date that particular quote. Wiki suggests he published most of his works between 1846 and 1875. He's not the most up-to-date source to rely on.