None have Suffered More

[TransmutingSoul]

@TransmutingSoul ,

Your messenger was imprisoned twice, once for 4 months, once for 2 months? And he was exiled from opulence and reduced to poverty. He lost his son to a tragic accident while in exile.

Yes, treatment in the prisons sounds horrifying. But I want to get the details right. Besides 6 months, and exile, and his son's death, what else?

Are we discussing this on only strictly material terms, or are we going to discuss this to include the wider spiritual possibilities?

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

Why would a prophet suffer at all? He's a prophet, supposedly perfect. Perhaps the implication is that he suffers because nobody takes him seriously. That does hurt some, I suppose.

 

[dybmh]

Are we discussing this on only strictly material terms, or are we going to discuss this to include the wider spiritual possibilities?

Regards Tony

Just the down to earth stuff, please.

The spiritual possibilities are endless.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I would offer there will be a lot of people that will not consider what they have suffered,

Offer away but the issue is that your saying none have suffered more than people who were ignore. Holocaust? Never heard of it but woe for the ignored prophets, their suffering is so great!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Why would a prophet suffer at all? He's a prophet, supposedly perfect. Perhaps the implication is that he suffers because nobody takes him seriously. That does hurt some, I suppose.

There's also the cringey fawning of the prophet's folllowers (e.g. the original post of this thread), which is so extreme it could very well transcend time, space, and the veil of death.

I can only imagine the extreme discomfort - or let's call it what it is: torture - of a prophet's unending eternity of reacting at what their followers do in their name. There is no Earthly repetitive strain injury as bad as unceasing, repeated facepalming and eyerolling forever.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Offer away but the issue is that your saying none have suffered more than people who were ignore. Holocaust? Never heard of it but woe for the ignored prophets, their suffering is so great!

I am personally looking beyond individual cases and see that the Messengers carry the suffering of all humanity.

I also see these Messengers are One, so they share it all, Baha'u'llah put it this way.

" The Ancient Beauty hath consented to be bound with chains that mankind may be released from its bondage, and hath accepted to be made a prisoner within this most mighty Stronghold that the whole world may attain unto true liberty. He hath drained to its dregs the cup of sorrow, that all the peoples of the earth may attain unto abiding joy, and be filled with gladness. This is of the mercy of your Lord, the Compassionate, the Most Merciful. We have accepted to be abased, O believers in the Unity of God, that ye may be exalted, and have suffered manifold afflictions, that ye might prosper and flourish. He Who hath come to build anew the whole world, behold, how they that have joined partners with God have forced Him to dwell within the most desolate of cities!.." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 99-100

Maybe this all transcends this material world, but I do appreciate not all will see this is so.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Just the down to earth stuff, please.

The spiritual possibilities are endless.

That makes it difficult,as I see the statement in the OP heading covered the endless possibilities.

It is obvious that it cannot be considered only in a material way, look at the replies and that becomes obvious.

It appears not many do not wish to explore this topic!

Regards Tony

 

[F1fan]

You get to choose how you see this, so laugh, cry, choose to have empathy, it is all your choice.

What you said reminds me of a prayer where God is talking to Baha'u'llah and says to Baha'u'llah,

".. We have made abasement the garment of glory, and affliction the adornment of Thy temple, O Pride of the worlds.

Thou seest the hearts are filled with hate, and to overlook is Thine, O Thou Concealer of the sins of the worlds.

When the swords flash, go forward! When the shafts fly, press onward! O Thou Sacrifice of the worlds...."

Then God says to Baha'u'llah,

"...Dost Thou wail, or shall I wail? Rather shall I weep at the fewness of Thy champions, O Thou Who hast caused the wailing of the worlds.."

So God weeps for us, for our poor choices.

Regards Tony

Wow, notice the only thing you respond to is my flippant comment about weeping for your messenger. You completely ignore my criticsm about your lack of moral concern for human beings. Are you so self-absorbed in your dogma that you are unable to feel anything for human beings?

Have you ever considered that your posts might not be good for the reputation of Bahai?

 

[dybmh]

That makes it difficult,as I see the statement in the OP heading covered the endless possibilities.

It is obvious that it cannot be considered only in a material way, look at the replies and that becomes obvious.

It appears not many do not wish to explore this topic!

Regards Tony

"The material way" is the place to start.

Ignoring the material way is ... lemmings.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

I am personally looking beyond individual cases and see that the Messengers carry the suffering of all humanity.

That somehow makes it more offensive; congratulations!

 

[F1fan]

I am personally looking beyond individual cases and see that the Messengers carry the suffering of all humanity.

I also see these Messengers are One, so they share it all, Baha'u'llah put it this way.

" The Ancient Beauty hath consented to be bound with chains that mankind may be released from its bondage, and hath accepted to be made a prisoner within this most mighty Stronghold that the whole world may attain unto true liberty. He hath drained to its dregs the cup of sorrow, that all the peoples of the earth may attain unto abiding joy, and be filled with gladness. This is of the mercy of your Lord, the Compassionate, the Most Merciful. We have accepted to be abased, O believers in the Unity of God, that ye may be exalted, and have suffered manifold afflictions, that ye might prosper and flourish. He Who hath come to build anew the whole world, behold, how they that have joined partners with God have forced Him to dwell within the most desolate of cities!.." Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 99-100

Maybe this all transcends this material world, but I do appreciate not all will see this is so.

Regards Tony

All this goes in the toilet because Baha'u'llah was a bigot. How can anything he wrote be valuable when it is constantly on our minds that he is a bigot?

 

[Trailblazer]

So what are your thoughts? Can you imagine any greater suffering than what the Prophets and Messengers have faced?

Yes I can. Many people suffer greatly.

 

[Trailblazer]

If they are messengers and are tapped into God’s wisdom, then they’re better able to the average person to cope with intolerance and insults and shame, and whatever else comes their way from other people who doubt their claims of some sort of spiritual enlightenment. Now, if we mortals are supposed to be upset about their suffering, then why not be concerned about the suffering of ordinary people?

Good point, a point I have made in the past.

 

[rational experiences]

Humans taught one God or all god.

Respect all things as each one is its own god. By body type.

Which is everything in fact.

Mutual equal as we need it all to exist...not as a thesis by maths prophet man who predicted everything is one...my life.
My ownership. I'm a wannabe God who owns jewels gold silver then earths mass power and now O infinities want as a huge big mass power..now.

So where would you go if man could resource infinity as just electricity? The same if men only wanted power to be gold ..philosophers stone where did you go?

Man said back into eternal as everything would be destroyed prophet.

It's why men in one nation have their own DNA predicted man's life changed as man of science changed life. Holy men in every country.

So bahu Allah...were you a bad prophet or a good prophet?

Good I didn't know science I only new law was for equal rights in governing for all humanity and not just my own nations.

Hence I couldn't preach pretext.

As the Jesus Christ movement tried to teach all nations humans legal rights.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yes, I see they have all suffered the rejection of the majority of humanity in one way or another, many have faced tortures and some death.

Since you say "all", then here is a good one to start with... the Buddha.

Aside from the usual point that the Buddha was not a messenger or prophet from a deity, in the common use of the word "suffering" the Buddha did not suffer (aside from a period of self-imposed strict asceticism). As to the word meaning the broader dukkha, he supposedly achieved liberation from this at Bodh Gaya - which then set in motion the teaching that we now call Buddhism.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes I can. Many people suffer greatly.

Yes they do. This is what the OP is about, Abdul'baha offered about Baha'u'llah.

"The Abha Beauty Himself -- may the spirit of all existence be offered up for His loved ones -- bore all manner of ordeals, and willingly accepted for Himself intense afflictions. No torment was there left that His sacred form was not subjected to, no suffering that did not descend upon Him....."

Thus we need to consider that as a Messenger they are subject to more than we see and can know.

This OP is not to explore the obvious. Baha'u'llah from memory also says no Messenger has suffered as Baha'u'llah has. Let's find that quote!

Regards Tony

 

[rational experiences]

Human suffering comes with a question why me. And what meaning?

Status we know we are a holy human baby. First parents DNA memory origin and healthy is the true human form the human first said so.

Immaculate heavens balanced sun light so immaculate heavens supported human life was the teaching. Holy babies life.

Don't believe the beast teaching it's false.

Hence I suffered acute pain. I proved I was psychic by human being answers from questions. I asked as I hadn't known the answer. I then researched my answer...correct historic. Correct medical. Correct remedy.

So you do a Jesus review. As life was being sacrificed again in rebuilding pyramids using old temple technology. In the psst. Humans.

The verbal story old by words only taught about the ancient monuments deserted pyramid were reviewed.

By scientific men. Why it was correlated in the same era. Whereas about a million acres ago...feet MAF the Hebrew teaching said technology had exited humans animals biological DNA. Because of nuclear sun attack chariot.

Meaning by designer men who invent by metals.

And it had combusted wood.

Today they claim you began first as just carbon thesis ...is being used. By humans.

We began as humans first in human presence first. No human anywhere else.

The big satanic con...theist a human as science by human intent only.

So I understood my suffering. I understood my family suffering dying in a greater amount of agony than my own life. I didn't agree with suffering reasoned.

I was advised it is not a correct life.

I then researched why.

The theme is a man as a teacher by Jewish information correlated new advice for humanity as a medical healer.

Was his story. The healer. The story wasn't carpenter.

The story CH gases said the God heavens body gases had been sacrificed to an anti Removal..totally removed.

Spirit of earth mass had been eradicated out of grounds mass and heavens. No man is God.

Men said in eradication of cold gases methane that kills biology CH burns sacrificed flesh were released. Out of ground mass opening.

And then a four day man built as carpenter tectonic plate change the eaten consumed rock flesh of God earthquake...everyone thought the end of life arrived as vacuum voided above ended attack when sky gas owner lost all light.

As gas stopped burning below. How mother womb a space thesis saved life from destruction.

As man wasn't a carpenter. Symbolism in life men built the causes as tectonic change. Seeing they claim orders in science as a stone mason....builder of gods power.

Ignored as significant old human science behaviours of men.

So you read the story incorrectly as no man was the tectonic plates of earth...it's a secret you know what satanic men caused.

Hence believing life's harm was holy is a misnomer. Yet if you studied medical you'd be angered and want justice.

 

[Trailblazer]

Baha'u'llah from memory also says no Messenger has suffered as Baha'u'llah has. Let's find that quote!

I vaguely remember that but I would like to see that quote. I'll bet @Truthseeker knows where it is.

 

[Truthseeker]

I vaguely remember that but I would like to see that quote. I'll bet @Truthseeker knows where it is.

Shoghi Effendi quoted Baha'u'llah as saying this:

"Though aware that they would lead to tribulations, and be the cause of troubles and afflictive trials, He, solely as a token of His loving-kindness and favor, and for the purpose of quickening the dead and of manifesting the Cause of the Lord of all Names and Attributes, and of redeeming all who are on earth, hath closed His eyes to His own well-being and borne that which no other person hath borne or will bear.”
Shoghi Effendi, "The Promised Day is Come", 112

It took some doing to find this. I didn't know where to find it. I looked under "suffer" and that led my finding Adib Taherzadeh quoting this, which led to Shoghi Effendi quoting it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I vaguely remember that but I would like to see that quote. I'll bet @Truthseeker knows where it is.

This is one, but not the one I am looking for,

"Meditate a while on the motive and reason which have been responsible for such a persecution. At no time, in no Dispensation, have the Prophets of God escaped the blasphemy of their enemies, the cruelty of their oppressors, the denunciation of the learned of their age, who appeared in the guise of uprightness and piety. Day and night they passed through such agonies as none can ever measure, except the knowledge of the one true God, exalted be His glory."

Bahá’u’lláh, Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 57-58

Notice that the suffering may not been seen and known by us, so it is easily put aside, easy to consider they have not suffered to te extent we see others do in this material world, yet it is this World where suffering is made manifest.

It may be they were created in the knowledge they will suffer in this life, scriptures seem to support this, now back to see if I can locate the other I was thinking of.

Regards Tony