Nothing lasts forever in this life

[KWED]

That is not an 'alternative explanation' since I never claimed anything else.
As I said before, consciousness IS a product of the brain, as long as we have a brain, but when we die and no longer have a brain, consciousness continues, since the soul is responsible for consciousness.

You clearly are blissfully unaware that you just repeated the same contradiction.

I keep telling myself to not get sucked back into debating with your nonsense, but when something so extraordinary is happening you just can't look away.

 

[KWED]

No, 1-3 are statements about what the afterlife will not be like.
Nobody except God and His Messengers knows what the afterlife will be like.

Dear god.
If you say the afterlife does not have X, you are making a positive claims about what the afterlife is like!
I gave you an explanation including a simple analogy. And once again, you ignored all of that and just repeated your initial, clearly flawed assertion.
Do you even understand what others are saying to you, I mean in the literal sense?

 

[muhammad_isa]

That analogy disproves a soul independent of the body.
Or have you managed to run software without any hardware.

Does the software exist independently from the hardware, or not?
I say yes .. hardware is physical while the program is not.

It really doesn't matter how the 'program' is run..
i.e. we experience life now, and will again

[ SAVE & EXIT ]

 

[KWED]

Nothing I said is contradictory.
I said: Consciousness IS a product of the brain, as long as we have a brain.
That means that consciousness is not a product of the soul. The soul animates the brain making consciousness possible.

Ah, so you are claiming that "consciousness" and "the soul" are two completely different and separate things. Not heard that one before. The two terms are usually used synonymously by apologists.
So - what is the soul? And if our consciousness (which is who we are, our awareness of self) dies with the brain, what point is the afterlife? The "soul" as you describe it isn't "us", it is simply a mechanism that facilitates "us".
(Why do I get the feeling that your response will not address any of my points, but instead simply reassert your initial claim)

Hell if there isn't.

In addition to religious scriptures there is plenty of evidence that there is consciousness apart from the brain,

Really? References please.

since people who were declared brain dead still had consciousness.

No they didn't. You're probably confusing "brain death" with "coma" or "persistent vegetative state".

 

[KWED]

The soul is the human spirit.
Animals do not have a soul, they have an animal spirit.
Animals have an animal spirit that animates their brain and body, just as just as humans have a soul that animates their brain and body.
I believe the soul and the animal spirit comes from God. I believe that the animal spirit continues after death,

So if human spirit is the soul, why isn't animal spirit a soul?
If the animal spirit continues after death, where does it go?

so I disagree with Abdu'l-Baha, who said it is extinguished at death.

Bahaullah told Bahais to look to Abdulbaha as the perfect exemplar of Bahai faith and teaching, because he has been "purposed by god". Yet you disagree with him. So you disagree with Bahaullah.
Which means that all your claims based on Bahaullah's infallibility can be dismissed.

*sits back, opens popcorn, waits the the flip-floppery to commence*

 

[KWED]

It is only a start, as we cannot understand how time exists in the spiritual world or what a spiritual body will be like.

*sigh*
Once again, if you cannot understand something, you cannot make definitive claims about it.
If you can't understand what time will be like in the afterlife, you cannot assert that it will not be like time here.

They are different in that there are no scriptures associated with them or written by them.

Of course there are writings about gremlins and demons.
And that would imply that before there were written scriptures mentioning him, god did not exist. (You've actually made a reasonable p0int there, but completely by accident! )

Or unless you believe there is life after death according to non-scriptural accounts.

Private Dowding
The Afterlife Revealed

Surely you are taking the **** now? Wellesley Tudor Pole was a Bahai! How can you seriously claim that his belief in the afterlife was not based on scripture?
The very concept of the soul is so inextricably entwined with religious belief that you can't really separate them.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If the animal spirit continues after death, where does it go?

..back to God from where it came..

What is God?
Some people imagine God in an anthropomorthic way i.e. a person
Some people think that God manufactures souls..

Personally, I see it in a more complex way .. that souls belong to God, and are not created.
Almighty God is immortal, and so are souls as they "belong" to Him.

 

[KWED]

I can know time in the spiritual world is not like ours without knowing what time is like in the spiritual world.
The way I know that time in the spiritual world isn't like time in this world (isn't like ours) is from what Abdu'l-Baha said. That does not mean I know what time is like in the spiritual world.

Abdu'l-Baha said: "Time with us is measured by the sun. When there is no more sunrise, and no more sunset, that kind of time does not exist for man." He said that kind of time does not exist for man but he did not say what kind of time does exist.

How does Abdulbaha know? You said that it is unknowable.
You have also said that you don't agree with everything he said.

‘Abdu’l-Bahá answered: When there is no more sunrise, and no more sunset, that kind of time does not exist for man. Those who have ascended have different attributes from those who are still on earth, yet there is no real separation." ‘Abdu’l-Bahá in London, pp. 95-96

So your ideas of what the afterlife is like are based on Abdulbaha's ideas, which must be just speculation because he can't know. And you don't consider him to be an entirely reliable source.

*crunch, munch*

 

[muhammad_isa]

Of course there are writings about gremlins and demons..

Men can be demons .. they are part of the evil of which God has created.
The angels asked God why He created mankind that would corrupt the earth.
He replied, "I know what you don't know".

 

[KWED]

No, it is perfectly logical.

It is logical that something that does not exist will not show any evidence for itself.
It is not logical to claim that that something exists if there is no evidence for it.

Something that is not physical would have no evidence in a physical world. Duh.

Are emotions physical? No. But they present evidence in the physical world.

 

[KWED]

There is nothing convenient about it, it is just logical.

It is inconvenient for you because you want something that is not procurable.

Er, yeah. If you make extraordinary claims that go against what we know about nature, then I would like some supporting evidence.
It's only logical.

 

[KWED]

Platitudes for today, but communicated via 17th Century English...

In the early 20th century, by a man from the Levant.
It's what god would have wanted.

 

[KWED]

How can one person produce so much circular reasoning?

It really is quite an achievement.

 

[KWED]

I don't struggle with that, but apparently you do.

You seem to misunderstand. I didn't mean that you struggle to accept claims with no evidence. You do that incredibly well!
You struggle to realise that you cannot claim someone is a messenger of god it you cannot show that god exists.
I understand that concept perfectly well.

Ironically, you perfectly illustrated the cognitive issues pretty much all the Bahais on here seem to have. It really is quite a remarkable phenomenon.

 

[KWED]

Does the software exist independently from the hardware, or not?

Not without the hardware to run it on of physical media to store it on.

I say yes .. hardware is physical while the program is not.

So where is the software running when there is no hardware to run it on?

It really doesn't matter how the 'program' is run..

Of course it does! That is the fundamental issue here. Does the software require hardware to run?
The answer is an absolute "yes".

i.e. we experience life now, and will again

I can run the software on my computer, but once it is broken, I will need another computer to run it again.

The other problem with your analogy is that even when it is not being run on a computer, the software still needs a physical storage medium to preserve it until the next installation.

 

[KWED]

..back to God from where it came..

What is God?
Some people imagine God in an anthropomorthic way i.e. a person
Some people think that God manufactures souls..

Do the animal spirits continue after physical death?
Are they still aware?

Personally, I see it in a more complex way .. that souls belong to God, and are not created.
Almighty God is immortal, and so are souls as they "belong" to Him.

So if god didn't create our souls, who did?
And if we aren't created, then you think everyone has always existed even before god created anything?

 

[muhammad_isa]

The other problem with your analogy is that even when it is not being run on a computer, the software still needs a physical storage medium to preserve it until the next installation.

So what .. it can be stored in the "cloud" ..
God's "cloud" is infinite.

Almighty God created us as we are. You know this present existence, but you don't think there could be another?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Do the animal spirits continue after physical death?
Are they still aware?

Yes .. all souls [all creatures] belong to God and continue after physical death.
The exact "mechanism" is not know, but God is able to create us of physical form and that which we know not.

So if god didn't create our souls, who did?

The "creation" is this physical universe.
The spiritual is unseen, and God knows best what "created" means in this context.

And if we aren't created, then you think everyone has always existed even before god created anything?

Yes, God is immortal, and we belong to Him.

 

[Sheldon]

Sheldon said: ↑
You might as well be claiming Harry Potter is a real wizard for all the sense that made

Are you asking me what that means?

No, do you see a question mark in my post? It was the usual unevidenced gibberish I've come to expect.

 

[Sheldon]

That is not an 'alternative explanation' since I never claimed anything else.
As I said before, consciousness IS a product of the brain, as long as we have a brain, but when we die and no longer have a brain, consciousness continues, since the soul is responsible for consciousness.

I don't believe you, since there is ample evidence that consciousness is a product of functioning brain. There is no objective evidence for woo woo like souls.