Nothing lasts forever in this life

[Spirit of Light]

Oh dear. You still aren't getting this, are you?
I am merely challenging the claims you make about your beliefs (this is a religious debate forum, after all). If those challenges lead to you reassessing your beliefs, then so be it.
If those challenges just make you angry with the person doing the challenging, then there seems to be a problem with your beliefs - but it is still only you who can change them.

But do you HAVE TO challenge other people's belief?
What's in it for you?

 

[KWED]

No, I just have beliefs, I am not claiming anything.
Whether you think they are senseless or not is another matter altogether.

You claim that god exists.
You claim that Bahaullah communicated with that god.
You claim to be 100% certain about those claims.

 

[KWED]

I am certain that God exists.

But you have admitted that it is impossible to prove god exists, so how can you be certain?

 

[KWED]

I do not like to think in terms of right and wrong, because I consider that egotistical:
"I was right and you were wrong."

Sure it is possible that my beliefs are not true. Anything is possible unless it has been proven impossible.

So your claims are true but mine are untrue.
How is that any different to claiming you are right and I am wrong?

If my beliefs are not true, it is not because I was misled by anyone, because nobody ever told me what to believe.

Of course they did. Bahaullah misled you.

I investigated for myself so if my beliefs are not true it would be because I misconstrued the evidence, believing it was evidence for something it was not really evidence for.

You believe everything Bahaullah said because he was god's messenger.
You believe he was god's messenger because of what he said.
And you believe what he said because he was god's messenger.
And you believe...
etc...
...

 

[KWED]

I have been doing that for almost five years on this forum,

Yes. You are certain because of what he said.

but that is not going to help anyone else because we all have to be sure for our own reasons.

Indeed. Because you haven't been able to show that what he said is true.

 

[KWED]

No, that is not what Baha'is do.

We do not tell other people that their beliefs are not true. What we do is say what we do not believe.

We tell Hindus we do not believe in reincarnation and we tell Christians we do not believe that Jesus is God, and we do not believe Jesus came back to live and we do not believe that Jesus is ever coming back.

Truth is the foundation of all virtues and lying is a sin so we are not going to lie and tell people we believe what we do not believe.

So you accept that Hindu beliefs might be true.

 

[KWED]

I think I answered that already.
I said: Sure it is possible that my beliefs are not true. Anything is possible unless it has been proven impossible.

So you accept that god may not exist.
But you are 100% certain that god exists.
Seems reasonable.

I think a more useful question is: How can we ever know if our beliefs are true?

Depends what those beliefs are. As you have admitted, you can't know if your beliefs are true.

Another useful question is: What if my beliefs are true, what are the implications of that?

I don't know. What are those implications?

 

[KWED]

Do you believe in God? Simple question..

Not really simple...
Which version of god?
There are many and they are usually incompatible.

 

[KWED]

I don't think we can really know for sure until we die, but I have thought about this a lot, and I don't think everyone will know after they die. I think that if my beliefs are true I will know because the things that it says in the Baha'i Writings will come to pass. The same holds true for a Christian or a Muslim, etc. if what they believed was true. But hypothetically speaking, if one of the beliefs was the true one, I don't think everyone else who held the false belief would know about the true belief.

There is a funny Baha'i joke about heaven I will post if you want to hear it.

I agree we should practice what we preach, but by 'implications' I was thinking more along the lines of how it might affect our eternal destination if our belief was true.

Wait. So you are saying that all versions of god are true, and all versions of heaven, hell, etc are true.
Basically, whatever a person believes is true?

 

[KWED]

You don't know !
What sort of answer is that?
Either you believe in God, or you don't..

I don't believe gods exist - but they might (in some form - but not the way described in the Quran).
Really not that difficult a concept to grasp. It's called being open-minded and rational.

Personally, I am certain that God exists.

What makes you certain?

I'm not interested in your divide and rule tactics.
@Trailblazer and I believe in the same God .. the Creator and Maintainer of the universe.
Our creeds might differ slightly .. so what?

So you believe that your god may have sent messengers after Muhammad?

 

[KWED]

As there is nothing specific about Joseph Smith in the teachings, the Guardian has no statement to make on his position or about the accuracy of any statement in the Book of Mormon regarding American history or its peoples. This is a matter for historians to pass upon.
(Shoghi Effendi, High Endeavours - Messages to Alaska, p. 71)

The reference to Joseph as a seer by Shoghi Effendi is a pilgrim note, that is, a recollection of something he said, and those we consider unreliable.

I have read some of the Book of Mormon, and have come to a personal conclusion that the story behind it is highly unlikely to have occured, and the story at the end where Jesus comes floating down saying the same words as in the Gospels almost word for word as straining credibility.

However, the Mormons are taught good morals in a number of areas, and their scripture certainly gives them motivation to follow those morals.

So it seems that Bahaullah was not aware of Mormonism.

 

[KWED]

But do you HAVE TO challenge other people's belief?

Do you HAVE TO challenge me challenging your beliefs?

What's in it for you?

What an odd question.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Do you HAVE TO challenge me challenging your beliefs?

What an odd question.

No, I do not have to challenge you. But I challenge the way you treat other people's person faith and belief.

Non of your question seem to be asked to learn and understand why people believe what they believe.
It seems to be asked to belittle anything any person believe as long it can not be proven by physical evidence.

But if we could prove it with any shadow of doubt that God exists. Then it would not be a belief. It would be science. And religion is not science based.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If those challenges just make you angry with the person doing the challenging..

Are you some kind of super-human? Do you never become angry?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Which version of god?

There is only One God .. the Creator .. the God that Abraham knew, that is evidenced by the Bible and Quran.

 

[Sheldon]

Can i ask in all honesty @KWED.
Why do you keep over and over er again stomp on others faith and belief? Is it not time to soon stop your quest to destroy other people?

This is a general religious debate forum, the site contains many forums where all manner of religious beliefs can be espoused in an echo chamber. Why are so many apologists afraid of honest debate? If I held a belief that could be "destroyed" in a debate I'd be thanking the person for helping me see this, and abandon it immediately.

 

[Sheldon]

There is only One God .. the Creator .. the God that Abraham knew, that is evidenced by the Bible and Quran.

You seem again to be espousing a personal subjective belief, that is at odds with mountains of apologists rhetoric, yet oddly are again expressing it as if it were an objective fact.

 

[Sheldon]

So if at the end of one of his TV specials, Derren Brown claimed to be a messenger of god, you would accept him as such

Good question, and Derren Brown has actually demonstrated in a tv programme how suggestible people can be, and converted a room full of people inside an hour. They had to be carefully de-converted afterward, with the truth. Imagine the resources of a global religion, acting relentlessly from the moment of one's birth.

 

[Trailblazer]

You claim that god exists.
You claim that Bahaullah communicated with that god.
You claim to be 100% certain about those claims.

I believe that God exists.
I believe that Baha'u'llah communicated with that God.
I am 100% certain about these beliefs.

 

[Trailblazer]

But you have admitted that it is impossible to prove god exists, so how can you be certain?

Simple. I do not need proof, because I have good evidence.