KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
But you made specific claims about what the afterlife will be like.
Were you just making it up?
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Nothing lasts forever in this life
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
Were you just making it up?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What claims are those? The only claims I made is that it will be a spiritual world and we will have a spiritual body rather than a physical body. Other than that, I know nothing about the afterlife.
“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.”
Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194
I have no idea what that body will be like. The soul will take on some kind of form, but we cannot know what that form will be like. It will be whatever form God decides we are worthy of.
“The nature of the soul after death can never be described, nor is it meet and permissible to reveal its whole character to the eyes of men.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 156
“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157
Baha'u'llah knew what the afterlife will be like because He got that knowledge from God, but Baha'u'llah never described the afterlife.
“Death proffereth unto every confident believer the cup that is life indeed. It bestoweth joy, and is the bearer of gladness. It conferreth the gift of everlasting life.
As to those that have tasted of the fruit of man’s earthly existence, which is the recognition of the one true God, exalted be His glory, their life hereafter is such as We are unable to describe. The knowledge thereof is with God, alone, the Lord of all worlds.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 345-346
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
Darn. I keep forgetting that you will happily contradict yourself or deny having said stuff whenever it suits you.
You said... "In the spiritual world, where there is no more sunrise, and no more sunset, that kind of time does not exist."
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
KWED said: But you made specific claims about what the afterlife will be like.Darn. I keep forgetting that you will happily contradict yourself or deny having said stuff whenever it suits you.
You said... "In the spiritual world, where there is no more sunrise, and no more sunset, that kind of time does not exist."
Were you just making it up?
TB said: What claims are those? The only claims I made is that it will be a spiritual world and we will have a spiritual body rather than a physical body. Other than that, I know nothing about the afterlife.
Time is just one aspect of the afterlife. Me saying that time as we know it in this life does not exist in the afterlife is not me saying that I know what the afterlife will be like.
Thus there is no contradiction.
Better luck next time.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
What C. S. Lewis Believed about Hell
Hell is an everlasting ruin, a decay, crumbling, retreating into yourself, a loss of all rationality and joy, a plunging into misery. But, it’s a self-plunging. It’s a gnawing and an ache, but it’s oriented inward, downward into the abyss.
Heaven is this ever-increasing, further up, further into joy, into God, into life. Hell is the opposite of that. It’s an everlasting movement away from God.
(And it is we who move, not God)
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I bet things are infinitely small comprising of components making up electrons themselves and so on.
One endless bottomless rabbit hole.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What Baha'u'llah revealed about hell is in the last sentence of this passage.
(And it is we who choose to become a victim of self and passion, not God)
“Thou hast asked Me concerning the nature of the soul. Know, verily, that the soul is a sign of God, a heavenly gem whose reality the most learned of men hath failed to grasp, and whose mystery no mind, however acute, can ever hope to unravel. It is the first among all created things to declare the excellence of its Creator, the first to recognize His glory, to cleave to His truth, and to bow down in adoration before Him. If it be faithful to God, it will reflect His light, and will, eventually, return unto Him. If it fail, however, in its allegiance to its Creator, it will become a victim to self and passion, and will, in the end, sink in their depths.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 158-159
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
Seriously?
You said that you had made no claims about what the afterlife will be like (other than we will have spiritual bodies rather than physical - which is another claim).
However, previously you had stated:
1. There is no sunset
2. There is no sunrise
3. Time is different to how we experience it.
There. Three specific claims about what the afterlife is like.
This is why it is impossible to have honest or rational debate with you. You Constantly contradict your own position and deny having said things that you clearly said.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
what is someone/something like?
phrase
DEFINITIONS1
1
used for asking about the qualities or features of a person or thing
I haven’t met Alan – what’s he like?
What was it like meeting Jill’s parents for the first time?
She took Andrew with her to show him what the club was like.
WHAT IS SOMEONE / SOMETHING LIKE? (phrase) American English definition and synonyms | Macmillan Dictionary
That there is no sunset and no sunrise does not tell us what the afterlife is LIKE.
Therefore, that there is no sunset and no sunrise is not a claim about what the afterlife is LIKE.
It is a claim about what the afterlife is not like.
What the afterlife is LIKE is not is not described by any scriptures so nobody KNOWS what the afterlife is LIKE.
For example, we do not know what our spiritual body will be made of, what it will look like, we do not know what we will be 'doing' for eternity in the afterlife, we do not know what we will see or how we will see it, we do not know who will see, we do not know if we will see God.... the list of what we do not know goes on and on.
This short video explains what we know and what we do not know.
For the most part the nature of the soul after death is a MYSTERY.
samtonga43
Well-Known Member
God the Son revealed this 2000 years before Mr.B.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It is also in the Bible, but so what? This is not a contest to see who said what first.
God is not the Son, God is the Father. Jesus is the Son.
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
I make an exception for that. God is always unknowable in the life and also the next.
Ten thousand Prophets, each a Moses, are thunderstruck upon the Sinai of their search at His forbidding voice, "Thou shalt never behold Me!"; whilst a myriad Messengers, each as great as Jesus, stand dismayed upon their heavenly thrones by the interdiction, "Mine Essence thou shalt never apprehend!" From time immemorial He hath been veiled in the ineffable sanctity of His exalted Self, and will everlastingly continue to be wrapt in the impenetrable mystery of His unknowable Essence. Every attempt to attain to an understanding of His inaccessible Reality hath ended in complete bewilderment, and every effort to approach His exalted Self and envisage His Essence hath resulted in hopelessness and failure.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 62)
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
This letter from the Guardian indicates that we will never see God, even in the next world.
"We will have experience of God's spirit through His Prophets in the next world, but God is too great for us to know without this Intermediary. The Prophets know God, but how is more than our human minds can grasp. We believe we may attain in the next world to seeing the Prophets. There is certainly a future life. Heaven and hell are conditions within our own beings."
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, November 14, 1947)
Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File
Truthseeker
Non-debating member when I can help myself
That's an odd way to get to Lights of Guidance, in Baha'i Library online. I get it through Ocean. I'm also surprised you knew it was there. Your eidectic memory played a role? I had to struggle to find the right keyword for Ocean, because my memory is so bad.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Yes, it is my eidetic memory.
I know what is in that Baha'i Reference File, and it is all about the soul and life after death.
The section is entitled:
G. Life after Death; the Soul
Lights of Guidance (second part): A Bahá'í Reference File
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
Really? Then why can't you remember what you posted the day before, so many times?Yes, it is my eidetic memory.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I know eggsactly what I have posted the day before, but I might have a different take on it the next day, or something new and different to add...
Life is not static and neither is the human mind. If we stop thinking and learning we may as well stop living.
KWED
Scratching head, scratching knee
I rest my case.