Nothing to do with Islam?

[LuisDantas]

Because invading peaceful nations contradict the quran in which it says

(2:190)
Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.

Can you comprehend what the verse says to the Muslims?

I take it that you have heard of the Battle of the Camel?

Which side of it was not composed of Muslims?

How many of those were atheists?

Who is seriously proposing that ISIS are atheists?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Some respondents to my thread "My thoughts on Muslim men and feminism" have insisted that the violence, oppression, and misogyny that occur so frequently in Islamic nations has nothing to do with Islam. Perhaps those of you who sincerely believe that these atrocities have nothing to do with Islam would benefit from watching a brief video from Mr. Pat Condell, who addresses this very issue.

Video removed by moderator.

Considering that those exact same things happen in predominantly Christian countries also should give you pause.

 

[Sakeenah]

It's my understanding that most of the bloody Islamic conquest that's occurred over the last 1400 years was justified as being "in defense" of Islam. So when it comes to groups like ISIS, even though most of the world's Muslims disagree with them, it's really difficult to show where ISIS isn't implementing a very plausible set of actions based on Islamic scripture and Islamic history.

So I appreciate the you personally disagree with the definition of "defense" that I offered. But I think my claim is pretty easy to defend from a statistical perspective.

Quick question, when you say
" bloody Islamic conquest that's occurred over the last 1400 years" are you referring to the Islam was spread by the sword narrative?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Quick question, when you say
" bloody Islamic conquest that's occurred over the last 1400 years" are you referring to the Islam was spread by the sword narrative?

As opposed to Christianity, obviously, because as we all know, Christianity has never been forced on anyone.

 

[icehorse]

Quick question, when you say
" bloody Islamic conquest that's occurred over the last 1400 years" are you referring to the Islam was spread by the sword narrative?

Well I'd call it history instead of "narrative"

 

[icehorse]

As opposed to Christianity, obviously, because as we all know, Christianity has never been forced on anyone.

Have you been reading the thread at all?

And regardless, it seems like you're proposing a "two wrongs make it right" sort of argument?

 

[LuisDantas]

I have to wonder how many Muslims actually believe the narratives of this peaceful proselitism of Islaam that somehow always seems to involve armies travelling along with the proselitizers, or those recurrent conflicts where both sides claim to be true Muslims yet we are to somehow know for a fact that only one is.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Have you been reading the thread at all?

yep

And regardless, it seems like you're proposing a "two wrongs make it right" sort of argument?

Not remotely. I'm condemning hypocrisy and confirmation bias.

If anyone wants to fight misogyny and such, fine with me. But when you're A. only interested in doing so when it furthers an agenda to demonise some other group, or B. when you ignore the beam in thine own eye, I will call it out.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I have to wonder how many Muslims actually believe the narratives of this peaceful proselitism of Islaam that somehow always seems to involve armies travelling along with the proselitizers, or those recurrent conflicts where both sides claim to be true Muslims yet we are to somehow know for a fact that only one is.

As opposed to Christianity, obviously, because as we all know, Christianity has never been forced on anyone.

 

[Sakeenah]

Well I'd call it history instead of "narrative"

Well..I call it a narrative
Maybe you and @LuisDantas can read this article. It's called " Did Islam spread by the sword? A critical look at forced conversions.

https://yaqeeninstitute.org/en/hass...a-critical-look-at-forced-conversions/#ftnt11

 

[icehorse]

yepNot remotely. I'm condemning hypocrisy and confirmation bias.

If anyone wants to fight misogyny and such, fine with me. But when you're A. only interested in doing so when it furthers an agenda to demonise some other group, or B. when you ignore the beam in thine own eye, I will call it out.

Your mind-reading powers are not strong.

I am demonizing ideas, not people. And of course I will continue to refute weak, apologist arguments. If you have an apologist argument that you think will hold water, trot it on out.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Your mind-reading powers are not strong.

I am demonizing ideas, not people. And of course I will continue to refute weak, apologist arguments. If you have an apologist argument that you think will hold water, trot it on out.

Look at the thread title. The whole thread is about Islam, an idea, not misogynists, people. And I'm not offering apologist arguments for anything. Please stop trying to fit everyone into a for us/against us false dichotomy.

 

[icehorse]

Well..I call it a narrative
Maybe you and @LuisDantas can read this article. It's called " Did Islam spread by the sword? A critical look at forced conversions.

https://yaqeeninstitute.org/en/hass...a-critical-look-at-forced-conversions/#ftnt11

I skimmed through the article. It's short on falsifiable claims. Let me suggest this five minute video. The speaker is honest and brave enough to make over 500 falsifiable claims:

 

[icehorse]

Look at the thread title. The whole thread is about Islam, an idea, not misogynists, people. And I'm not offering apologist arguments for anything. Please stop trying to fit everyone into a for us/against us false dichotomy.

I am responding to your accusations, which I believe to be unfounded. Nothing more.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I skimmed through the article. It's short on falsifiable claims. Let me suggest this five minute video. The speaker is honest and brave enough to make over 500 falsifiable claims:

Strange you only discuss Islamic expansion in contrast to the Crusades. North, South America, much of Africa and Australia would like a word...

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I am responding to your accusations, which I believe to be unfounded. Nothing more.

My "accusations" as you call them, are perfectly well founded in the content of the thread. I appreciate your cognitive dissonance may make this difficult to appreciate.

 

[FearGod]

I take it that you have heard of the Battle of the Camel?

Which side of it was not composed of Muslims?

How many of those were atheists?

Who is seriously proposing that ISIS are atheists?

Do you blame the quran that some Muslims may fight each others, for example Iran and
Saudi Arabia are nemies, do you blame Islam and the quran for their actions?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Do you blame the quran that some Muslims may fight each others, for example Iran and
Saudi Arabia are nemies, do you blame Islam and the quran for their actions?

Is it the Bible's fault when Christians fight each other?

 

[LuisDantas]

As opposed to Christianity, obviously, because as we all know, Christianity has never been forced on anyone.

Remind me why that is relevant, if you will.

 

[LuisDantas]

Do you blame the quran that some Muslims may fight each others, for example Iran and
Saudi Arabia are nemies, do you blame Islam and the quran for their actions?

Yes. I blame the Qur'an for being a terrible attempt at scripture. I blame Islaam for being a poor and dangerous attempt at a doctrine. And I am sorely disappointed in Muslims for failing so consistently at doing something about those fairly self-evident facts.