Nothing to do with Islam?

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Remind me why that is relevant, if you will.

Because condemning a group for something that your own group is just as guilty of, if not moreso, is hypocritical.

 

[LuisDantas]

Is it the Bible's fault when Christians fight each other?

Is it the Christian's merit when they learn better?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Yes. I blame the Qur'an for being a terrible attempt at scripture. I blame Islaam for being a poor and dangerous attempt at a doctrine. And I am sorely disappointed in Muslims for failing so consistently at doing something about those fairly self-evident facts.

Why do you single out Muslims? I'm pretty confident I can cite at least as many problematic components in any religion's holy book/s as you can find in the Koran. Probably quite a few more in some.

 

[LuisDantas]

Because condemning a group for something that your own group is just as guilty of, if not moreso, is hypocritical.

And that applies here, how?

 

[LuisDantas]

Why do you single out Muslims? I'm pretty confident I can cite at least as many problematic components in any religion's holy book/s as you can find in the Koran. Probably quite a few more in some.

Try me. I dare you.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Is it the Christian's merit when they learn better?

Show that they do? I'd argue Christians have killed a great many more fellow Christians than Muslims have killed fellow Muslims.

 

[oldbadger]

Some respondents to my thread "My thoughts on Muslim men and feminism" have insisted that the violence, oppression, and misogyny that occur so frequently in Islamic nations has nothing to do with Islam. Perhaps those of you who sincerely believe that these atrocities have nothing to do with Islam would benefit from watching a brief video from Mr. Pat Condell, who addresses this very issue.

Video removed by moderator.

So Mr Condell is an Islamophobic ranter..... is that fairly accurate?

I've known and worked beside several UK Muslims over the years and they have not fitted with your ideas about Muslim males.

And women's rights supporters here focus upon just that, with no bias towards Muslim men one way or the other.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Try me. I dare you.

Go for it. You nominate a foundational holy book you think has fewer problematic bits than the Koran and let's discuss it

 

[FearGod]

Yes. I blame the Qur'an for being a terrible attempt at scripture. I blame Islaam for being a poor and dangerous attempt at a doctrine. And I am sorely disappointed in Muslims for failing so consistently at doing something about those fairly self-evident facts.

Do you blame the bible or the quran, Christianity or Islam that North Korea and USA are enemies?
Do you blame the bible or the quran, Christianity or Islam that hundreds of thousands of the Japenese
being killed by the Nuclear bomb?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

And that applies here, how?

I'm not sure if you're being willfully obtuse, or you're blatantly ignorant about the history of Christianity.

 

[oldbadger]

Try me. I dare you.

I read Armoured's post to you.
You used to debate that Hitler was a Christian, the Reich belt buckle and other exhibits suggesting just that, in which case Christians have really done some heavy mass murdering when compared to Muslims.

 

[Sakeenah]

I skimmed through the article. It's short on falsifiable claims. Let me suggest this five minute video. The speaker is honest and brave enough to make over 500 falsifiable claims:

Is there a reason why you skimmed through it, and didn't read the entire article? I thought you would be interested in understanding a Muslim's view on this issue, it's also relevant to our discussion.

Thanks, I'll watch the video.

 

[icehorse]

Strange you only discuss Islamic expansion in contrast to the Crusades. North, South America, much of Africa and Australia would like a word...

Again with the "two wrongs" argument? If you want to criticize Christianity, start a thread and I'll join you there. THIS thread is about Islam. (And again, I'm no fan of Christianity.)

 

[icehorse]

My "accusations" as you call them, are perfectly well founded in the content of the thread. I appreciate your cognitive dissonance may make this difficult to appreciate.

If they weren't accusations, then what would you call them. And also, there is no need to lower yourself to using ad hominem attacks.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Again with the "two wrongs" argument? If you want to criticize Christianity, start a thread and I'll join you there. THIS thread is about Islam. (And again, I'm no fan of Christianity.)

Um, still not a "two wrongs" argument in any way, shape, or form. Pretty much the exact opposite, in fact.

 

[icehorse]

Is there a reason why you skimmed through it, and didn't read the entire article? I thought you would be interested in understanding a Muslim's view on this issue, it's also relevant to our discussion.

Thanks, I'll watch the video.

Hi Sakeenah,

The goal of the article you posted was to demonstrate that the "spread by the sword" idea is mostly not true. In general, from a critical thinking, logical perspective, it's extremely difficult to prove that a thing does not exist. So the author has a big problem to start out with. In the end, all the author can really do is claim it didn't happen.

So I offered as a counter-argument a video that makes over 500 claims that can each be verified or disputed. There IS a logical way to prove or disprove the claims made in the video, because they are precise and specific.

Does that make sense?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

If they weren't accusations, then what would you call them.

Fair criticism

And also, there is no need to lower yourself to using ad hominem attacks.

It wasn't an ad hominem. It was a pertinent, relevant comment. If I were to tell a colour blind person I appreciate he has a hard time grasping the concept of green, that wouldn't be an ad hominem attack, either. An ad hominem is when you dismiss someone's argument because of some quality in the person. That is not remotely what I did.

 

[icehorse]

Strange you only discuss Islamic expansion in contrast to the Crusades. North, South America, much of Africa and Australia would like a word...

What implication am I meant to take from your comment? I inferred that you wanted to compare bloody Christian conquests to the 500+ bloody Islamic conquest battles the video discusses?

 

[icehorse]

Fair criticismIt wasn't an ad hominem. It was a pertinent, relevant comment. If I were to tell a colour blind person I appreciate he has a hard time grasping the concept of green, that wouldn't be an ad hominem attack, either. An ad hominem is when you dismiss someone's argument because of some quality in the person. That is not remotely what I did.

In a debate, an ad hominem is when you attack your opponent, not their ideas. By claiming I'm experiencing "cognitive dissonance" you are not responding to my arguments.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

What implication am I meant to take from your comment? I inferred that you wanted to compare bloody Christian conquests to the 500+ bloody Islamic conquest battles the video discusses?

The comment was not made in isolation, but rather in the context of the thread, i.e. "Islam is bad because...". If this were a dispassionate, objective and academic discussion of Islam, fine, but let's not fool ourselves that that's ever what this thread was meant to be.