Nothing To Fear If You've Nothing To Hide

[Revoltingest]

Oh my.
All the endless laws are just insane imo.
But if I made cash deposits in banks, I still have nothing to hide.

If I inadvertently break a law, I still have nothing to hide.

Fearing the stupid laws I don’t even know exist is another story.

With proliferation of both laws & info, there's increasing
ability for government to ruin lives of people who intend
no wrong, & to persecute enemies.
A co-worker back in the 80s was an officer in the Army
Reserve. He disciplined a guy who happened to work
for the IRS. My co-worker had nothing to hide that he
knew of, but the yearly audits thereafter were still a
pain to deal with.
It's also possible to have people not under one's control
commit crimes for which one is deemed culpable. This
I discovered as a landlord...if tenants commit a code
violation, the law holds only the landlord responsible.
Such things create costs passed on to the good tenants.

 

[Regiomontanus]

Centralization of info strikes me as a good idea,
eg, keeping tabs in bad cops so they don't just
switch states to continue their mayhem.
However, I want limits on the extent they can
keep info on ordinary citizens.

A good libertarian reply

 

[Meow Mix]

This is what we hear from government when they
question & surveil us. I'm skeptical. How about you?

Biden's Total Financial Surveillance

Excerpted...
Imagine living in a world where every one of your noncash financial transactions—a restaurant meal, a Venmo transfer to a friend, maybe some bitcoin bought on the dips—was automatically reported to a beefed-up, audit-hungry IRS.

That dystopia will become a reality if President Joe Biden gets his way. Biden, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, and key Capitol Hill allies such as Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) are pushing a vast, intrusive financial surveillance system in the name of closing the "tax gap."

But don't worry: There's no need to fear if you've got nothing to hide.

"For already compliant taxpayers, the only effect of this regime is to provide easy access to summary information on financial accounts and to decrease the likelihood of costly 'no fault' examinations," the Treasury Department said this May in a nakedly authoritarian document called "The American Families Plan Tax Compliance Agenda." But "for noncompliant taxpayers," the department continues, "this regime would encourage voluntary compliance as evaders realize that the risk of evasion being detected has risen noticeably."

Can we please just get new blood candidates in 2024? I don't wanna see Trump or Biden or either of their VPs, or any of the vampires and zombies most likely to fill in.

 

[Revoltingest]

Can we please just get new blood candidates in 2024? I don't wanna see Trump or Biden or either of their VPs, or any of the vampires and zombies most likely to fill in.

You'll have to ask Democrats & Republicans
here to do that in their primaries. (I don't
vote in those.)

 

[Father Heathen]

There's no need to fear if you've got nothing to hide.

It doesn't matter if you've "got nothing to hide" if those in power are corrupt and unethical.

 

[Revoltingest]

It doesn't matter if you've "got nothing to hide" if those in power are corrupt and unethical.

When questioned by cops without anything being recorded,
cops can & do testify in court to something different from
what was said. So even if someone has nothing to hide,
that which isn't hidden could be twisted to something
incriminating.
Police perjury - Wikipedia

 

[mangalavara]

As someone who is not a libertarian, and not even close to being a libertarian, I actually agree with statements like ‘It is nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide.’ Not all non-libertarians share my perspective, of course, and that is okay with me.

After reading that article, I must say that what worries me is not transactions being known to the IRS but why exactly Obama pushed for FATCA and why exactly Biden is pushing for TAFPTCA. Don’t get me wrong, I have no problem with my government combating tax evasion. Are these laws merely intended to stop tax evasion and loopholes, or are they steps toward a larger goal: to collect enough tax dollars to greatly decrease the national debt. I am actually worried that the time may come when the federal government locks American citizens in their country and taxes them at outrageously high rates.

 

[Twilight Hue]

This is what we hear from government when they
question & surveil us. I'm skeptical. How about you?

Biden's Total Financial Surveillance

Excerpted...
Imagine living in a world where every one of your noncash financial transactions—a restaurant meal, a Venmo transfer to a friend, maybe some bitcoin bought on the dips—was automatically reported to a beefed-up, audit-hungry IRS.

That dystopia will become a reality if President Joe Biden gets his way. Biden, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, and key Capitol Hill allies such as Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) are pushing a vast, intrusive financial surveillance system in the name of closing the "tax gap."

But don't worry: There's no need to fear if you've got nothing to hide.

"For already compliant taxpayers, the only effect of this regime is to provide easy access to summary information on financial accounts and to decrease the likelihood of costly 'no fault' examinations," the Treasury Department said this May in a nakedly authoritarian document called "The American Families Plan Tax Compliance Agenda." But "for noncompliant taxpayers," the department continues, "this regime would encourage voluntary compliance as evaders realize that the risk of evasion being detected has risen noticeably."

Sooooooooo......

Would that by perchance, fully apply specifically to those framing this wonderful type of esteemed legislation?

I'm sure it does. Lead by example you know.

 

[Stevicus]

This is what we hear from government when they
question & surveil us. I'm skeptical. How about you?

Biden's Total Financial Surveillance

Excerpted...
Imagine living in a world where every one of your noncash financial transactions—a restaurant meal, a Venmo transfer to a friend, maybe some bitcoin bought on the dips—was automatically reported to a beefed-up, audit-hungry IRS.

That dystopia will become a reality if President Joe Biden gets his way. Biden, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, and key Capitol Hill allies such as Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) are pushing a vast, intrusive financial surveillance system in the name of closing the "tax gap."

But don't worry: There's no need to fear if you've got nothing to hide.

"For already compliant taxpayers, the only effect of this regime is to provide easy access to summary information on financial accounts and to decrease the likelihood of costly 'no fault' examinations," the Treasury Department said this May in a nakedly authoritarian document called "The American Families Plan Tax Compliance Agenda." But "for noncompliant taxpayers," the department continues, "this regime would encourage voluntary compliance as evaders realize that the risk of evasion being detected has risen noticeably."

We've been living in a surveillance, national security-oriented state for quite some time. It seems it's been that way since WW2, all through the Cold War, and the ongoing War on Terror. Oh, and I almost forgot about the War on Drugs, which is another pretext behind government surveillance and broadening the authority of police.

And of course, they use the IRS whenever it suits them.

The tools and technology we have today makes their job that much easier.

I have been reading that governments have been targeting Bitcoin lately.

 

[esmith]

Private companies with my spending data. Yes. THAT is scary.

Private companies already have your spending data:
Credit Card companies
eCommerce companies
online banking companies

Online search companies like Google know what you are interested in
How about all you people on Facebook, forums like this one.
If you are online just about anything about you is available.

However, the government can be very very obtrusive if you give them half a chance.

 

[AlexanderG]

This is what we hear from government when they
question & surveil us. I'm skeptical. How about you?

Biden's Total Financial Surveillance

Excerpted...
Imagine living in a world where every one of your noncash financial transactions—a restaurant meal, a Venmo transfer to a friend, maybe some bitcoin bought on the dips—was automatically reported to a beefed-up, audit-hungry IRS.

That dystopia will become a reality if President Joe Biden gets his way. Biden, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, and key Capitol Hill allies such as Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) are pushing a vast, intrusive financial surveillance system in the name of closing the "tax gap."

But don't worry: There's no need to fear if you've got nothing to hide.

"For already compliant taxpayers, the only effect of this regime is to provide easy access to summary information on financial accounts and to decrease the likelihood of costly 'no fault' examinations," the Treasury Department said this May in a nakedly authoritarian document called "The American Families Plan Tax Compliance Agenda." But "for noncompliant taxpayers," the department continues, "this regime would encourage voluntary compliance as evaders realize that the risk of evasion being detected has risen noticeably."

Honestly, I think this is a political trend that has been increasing and will continue to increase.
1. On a psychological level, people are appalled by widely reported catastrophes that could have been prevented by more surveillance being in place. They like to blame politicians, by voting them out, when such "failures" are determined.
2. On a psychological level, people don't notice or worry about incremental changes to obscure policies that don't noticeably affect their lives.

Politicians therefore have every incentive to do this. They are both consolidating their operational power, and insulating themselves from potential tidal waves of voter anger driven by big negative events. Unless there is a widely-reported abuse of this accruing power, they have nothing to worry about.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The new modern axiom.

"There's nothing to fear if you got something to hide behind".

 

[Father Heathen]

When questioned by cops without anything being recorded,
cops can & do testify in court to something different from
what was said. So even if someone has nothing to hide,
that which isn't hidden could be twisted to something
incriminating.
Police perjury - Wikipedia

Exactly. It doesn't matter how honest and trustworthy you are if those who exercise authority over you are not.

 

[Secret Chief]

That's what they tell you to gain compliance.

Which is why I said it was a lie.

 

[Augustus]

But don't worry: There's no need to fear if you've got nothing to hide.

It's quite interesting that many people who will defend this law and trust the government to use it responsibly also thought that the previous President was literally a fascist (or not far off being one). They also think that a party with a decent chance of winning the next Presidency as well as the House and Senate are nothing but venal, corrupt enablers of fascism.

Holding these beliefs seems incongruent to me...

Doing a little searching results the same story without the hysterical conspiracy slant seen in the OP.
Basically, the idea is to beef up the IRS so we can catch the majority of tax evasion which, eek: *gasp of shock and dismay*) is perpetrated primarily by the ultra-wealthy and their private corporations.

Who knew? Right?

My guess would be that the top 1% will continue to find increasingly sophisticated ways of avoiding taxes, and that small business owners and those who deal in cash are more likely to end up on the wrong side of the law.

 

[Augustus]

https://assets.kpmg/content/dam/kpmg/us/pdf/2021/06/tnf-wnit-treasury-jun14-2021.pdf is a neutral analysis of the plan which paints a very different picture.
.

I have no means (or desire) to analyse this in detail, but I wouldn't always take the word of a large corporation with a vested financial interest in the issue as being neutral.

Their interests in the issue are not necessarily the same as the average person in the streets. Their report is often more of a PR document that supports corporate interests than a public service.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

When questioned by cops without anything being recorded,
cops can & do testify in court to something different from
what was said. So even if someone has nothing to hide,
that which isn't hidden could be twisted to something
incriminating.
Police perjury - Wikipedia

Exactly. It doesn't matter how honest and trustworthy you are if those who exercise authority over you are not.

Both of the above quotes are a good reason to have more recordings, more cameras, more available info.
Cops are humans. Politicians are human. Judges and vigilante mobs are humans. Humans are biased and egotistical and self-serving and fearful, power-hungry, sexist and bigoted.

Cameras are not.


.

​

 

[sun rise]

The substance of the problem is being ignored for general back and forth about evil or non-evil government.

Those that don't like the bill should propose how the IRS should collect the incredible sums that should be paid. Those that don't like the bill should discuss how to modernize the IRS. Those that don't like the bill should discuss alternative legislation that makes not paying what's owed a crime without being intrusive.

Otherwise, just more internet babble.

 

[Stevicus]

 

[stvdv]

This is what we hear from government when they
question & surveil us. I'm skeptical. How about you?

Biden's Total Financial Surveillance

I've been warning you for 2 years, USA will soon be China2.0

This was their plan from the beginning, but it's just the beginning