Now It's Student Led Prayer at Football Games

[loganonekenobi]

Going to need a source to back up this claim; particularly that first sentence.

I found them for you
TENETS
THERE ARE SEVEN FUNDAMENTAL TENETS.

• One should strive to act with compassion and empathy towards all creatures in accordance with reason.
• The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
• One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
• The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo one's own.
• Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the world. We should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit our beliefs.
• People are fallible. If we make a mistake, we should do our best to rectify it and remediate any harm that may have been caused.
• Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
• Wow! Those Satanist are sure horrible aren't they.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Going to need a source to back up this claim; particularly that first sentence.

Our fundamental principle is of self-interest.
Church of Satan Youth Communiqué | Church of Satan

“The seven deadly sins of the Christian Church are: greed, pride, envy, anger, gluttony, lust, and sloth. Satanism advocates indulging in each of these ‘sins’ as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification.”
LaVey, The Satanic Rituals, 21.

The Nine Satanic Statements originally appeared in The Satanic Bible, © 1969

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!
2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!
3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!
4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!
5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!
6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!
7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!
8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!
9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

As regards the "Satanic Temple" (as opposed to the Church of Satan) if you go to their site, their main tenet is rebelling against authority, not self interest. To this extent, they are NOT of the LaVeyist religion and are misappropriating the title of Satanism.

 

[Milton Platt]

.

"An OH School District Wrongly Thinks Student-Led Loudspeaker Prayers Are Legal
​

Earlier this year, the Freedom From Religion Foundation wrote a letter to the West Branch Local School District in Ohio because prayers were being recited over the loudspeaker at school-sponsored events. That’s obviously illegal, and the District agreed to put a stop to it by replacing all those prayers with a moment of silence.

Then they backtracked. On August 20, the school board voted to allow a “limited open forum” at school events. In theory, that means students could lead prayers (which is always legal). But in practice, the District figured that was the loophole they needed to exploit in order to continue the loudspeaker prayers. They didn’t understand that students who decide on their own to pray to Jesus still don’t have the legal right to use the school’s resources to broadcast that prayer.

According to schools Superintendent Timothy Saxton, the addendum “helps us more clearly define and implement our policy allowing student-led voluntary invocations before events. The board felt this resolution gives us more direction as a district and administrative team for future challenges.”

Saxton in an email Thursday praised the board on its action.

“I applaud the board’s decision as it has taken a clear stand and feels that the tradition of allowing (prayer) before home varsity events is something that truly matters to our students and the West Branch Local School District’s strong faith-based community,” he said.
​

Make no mistake: This was all about religion, and letting students use the loudspeaker to promote their religious views at school events was a lawsuit waiting to happen. It’s already happened. Last Friday night, there was a Christian prayer said over the loudspeakers before a football game. The public address announcer said it wasn’t sponsored by the school, but that’s really an irrelevant remark. It was like fine print that no one was ever going to see.

That’s the argument FFRF’s legal fellow Christopher Line made in a letter sent to the District on Friday:

Establishing a “limited public forum” to ensure that students will pray before games, and then including a disclaimer that this is not sponsored by the school does not make this practice legal… The Supreme Court has specifically struck down invocations given over the loudspeaker at public school athletic events, even when students-led.
​

The school has to decide what’s more important: Pushing Jesus on everybody (and dealing with the inevitable lawsuit), or saying no to the prayers and reminding students they can all talk to God silently and telepathically anytime they want. Hell, even if they want to do it vocally and for show, they can do it in the parking lot before the enter. The District shouldn’t be helping them out.

This isn’t complicated. At least it wouldn’t be if the school board gave a damn about following the law."
source​

*sigh* They just don't get it...............Or is it that they don't want to get it? In either case, STUPIDITY AGAIN REIGNS.

.
.​

Just moved to Northeast Texas. Went to a high school football game with my nephew. Before the game, everyone stood for the pledge of allegiance. Following that, a prayer was said. Probably happens at all their games, as well as at the other high school games in the area. Not a surprise. East Texas is plastered with churches.

 

[Skwim]

Just moved to Northeast Texas. Went to a high school football game with my nephew. Before the game, everyone stood for the pledge of allegiance. Following that, a prayer was said. Probably happens at all their games, as well as at the other high school games in the area. Not a surprise. East Texas is plastered with churches.

Do you recall if the prayer was said through the sound system?

.

 

[Milton Platt]

Do you recall if the prayer was said through the sound system?

.

I was still under the grand stand at the time waiting on someone, but I believe it was. Plan on attending another game in the future. I will PM you when I can say so positively.
Why does it matter if it was on the PA or just shouted from midfield?

 

[Skwim]

I was still under the grand stand at the time waiting on someone, but I believe it was. Plan on attending another game in the future. I will PM you when I can say so positively.
Why does it matter if it was on the PA or just shouted from midfield?

Because the SCOTUS has ruled it's against the law to use school equipment to broadcast prayers.

.

 

[Milton Platt]

Because the SCOTUS has ruled it's against the law to use school equipment to broadcast prayers.

.

got that, but isn't the football field "school equipment"?

 

[Skwim]

got that, but isn't the football field "school equipment"?

It's the prayer part that's significant. Other than using the school premises for student organized and led prayers, school property can't be involved. It's a separation of church and state issue.

.

.

 

[Milton Platt]

It's the prayer part that's significant. Other than using the school premises for student organized and led prayers, school property can't be involved. It's a separation of church and state issue.

.

.

Yes, and I'm all for that separation. I was just wondering why a school led prayer would be okay without a PA system and not okay with a PA system, since it was done on school property either way.

 

[Deidre]

So it is OK for Homosexuals to blast their sinful agenda all over the place but Christians can't say a vocal prayer? I believe that is unfair.

Where are they blasting their ''agenda?''

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Where are they blasting their ''agenda?''

I never got a response when I asked that question

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes, and I'm all for that separation. I was just wondering why a school led prayer would be okay without a PA system and not okay with a PA system, since it was done on school property either way.

The issue is more about whether the school is facilitating or endorsing the prayer.

A student saying grace over their lunch in the school cafeteria isn't being facilitated by the school; the school gives students (mostly) free reign to say and do what they want at lunch; if a student decides to use this freedom to pray, that's fine... even though they're doing it on school property.

The PA system at a football game is different, since it's something that's not just open to every student. The school controls access to it, and therefore tacitly endorses the statements made over it.

There are plenty of ways that a school can officially endorse religion. For instance, Google Jessica Ahlquist - her school had a Christian "school prayer" hung in the foyer. Hanging and keeping the prayer was an official act of the school.

OTOH, there could be other cases where Christian artwork could be hung on the walls of a school without it being an official act of the school, such as a display featuring art projects from an entire class where the students were allowed to choose any theme, and some students chose to express religious themes.

The short version: the students still retain their freedom of speech and freedom of religion even though they happen to be at school, but the school itself has to remain religiously neutral.

 

[Milton Platt]

Where are they blasting their ''agenda?''

I never got a response when I asked that question

The general "school" public has access to it and the students are part of that "public" school. They also have equal access to rooms and equal access to speak during non-classroom time.

No, the entire student body does not have equal access to a school’s PA system.

 

[Milton Platt]

So it is OK for Homosexuals to blast their sinful agenda all over the place but Christians can't say a vocal prayer? I believe that is unfair.

Homosexuality is not a religion.
But just to play along, please provide examples of homosexuals using a school PA system at a football game to promote an agenda. While you are at it, tell everyone what the agenda is.
Otherwise, take your homophobia to another thread.

 

[Milton Platt]

The issue is more about whether the school is facilitating or endorsing the prayer.

A student saying grace over their lunch in the school cafeteria isn't being facilitated by the school; the school gives students (mostly) free reign to say and do what they want at lunch; if a student decides to use this freedom to pray, that's fine... even though they're doing it on school property.

The PA system at a football game is different, since it's something that's not just open to every student. The school controls access to it, and therefore tacitly endorses the statements made over it.

There are plenty of ways that a school can officially endorse religion. For instance, Google Jessica Ahlquist - her school had a Christian "school prayer" hung in the foyer. Hanging and keeping the prayer was an official act of the school.

OTOH, there could be other cases where Christian artwork could be hung on the walls of a school without it being an official act of the school, such as a display featuring art projects from an entire class where the students were allowed to choose any theme, and some students chose to express religious themes.

The short version: the students still retain their freedom of speech and freedom of religion even though they happen to be at school, but the school itself has to remain religiously neutral.

Yes, I agree with you. But when a prayer is said outloud from the center of a football field, it seems no different when amplification equipment is used or not used. Not talking about a student muttering one to himself, but in a loud voice with everyone in attendance being asked to stand and bow their heads.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes, I agree with you. But when a prayer is said outloud from the center of a football field, it seems no different when amplification equipment is used or not used. Not talking about a student muttering one to himself, but in a loud voice with everyone in attendance being asked to stand and bow their heads.

I agree. That sounds like it's being facilitated by the school. Where the question of whether they used a loudspeaker comes into it is that if they're using the school's sound system, then there can be no doubt that the school was facilitating the prayer as an official act.

 

[Deidre]

I never got a response when I asked that question

I think I know what he means...that basically he feels that the homosexual “agenda” is constantly in our everyday lives.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I think I know what he means...that basically he feels that the homosexual “agenda” is constantly in our everyday lives.

The only people constantly talking about promoting a homosexual agenda are paranoid homophobes

 

[loganonekenobi]

As regards the "Satanic Temple" (as opposed to the Church of Satan) if you go to their site, their main tenet is rebelling against authority, not self interest. To this extent, they are NOT of the LaVeyist religion and are misappropriating the title of Satanism.

I'm not sure you have the facts straight. So lets look ....

Church of Satan - Wikipedia

Do All Satanists Believe the Same Thing?

now that last one is very interesting and some what telling of what human do with religion. You trying to convey which are the real satanists and which aren't is like me trying to say i have the authority to know which of the 30 thousand + denominations of Christianity is the true way. Even the Judaism has denominations. This is one of the main reasons why i see religion as just a mental concept of humanity.

Still lets look at the fist set of principles from Lavey.
Now I'm not going to laud the nobility and selflessness of these tenets which Levay penned but I don't see anywhere that says things like , kill non virgin brides, kill homosexuals, kill unruly sons, kill any neighbor that tries to sell you on other faiths, take slaves from foreign tribes (especially the young girls), skeptics cant be good people, women should be silent in church, women should have no authority over men, and (my favorite) every one who does not believe in the faith (whether acting evil or not) will be tortured forever equally. However, if you truly repent after a life of evil you can still go to heaven.
In all fairness there are a number of good things said in the bible as well. My favorite is the one about not concerning oneself with the speck in another's eye when the log is still in yours (or mine to be fair)
My point is satanism deserves just as many rights as any Judeo-Christian religion. As long as they're not breaking laws as a part of their "faith" then they should not be excluded from invocations if we are to be a fair and just society.