Now It's Student Led Prayer at Football Games

[Kangaroo Feathers]

When you decide to take the burr out of your saddle, we can start to have an intelligent conversation.

I welcome intelligent conversation. Stop relying on logical fallacies like No True Scotsman, and we can have one.

 

[Kenny]

Like burning crosses?

There are radicals within every religion.

True... true...

 

[sealchan]

WOOHOOOOOO!


The Supreme Court opens a court hearing on Public Prayer... with... OMG A PRAYER!

Supreme Court Opens Hearing on Public Prayer—With a Prayer

IT PASSED THE MUSTARD TOO!

I tell you, we are infecting EVERYONE You might catch it Skwim.

That huggy emoticon reminds me of Bishop Ellis.

 

[sealchan]

Especially because the Bible tells Christians not to make a public display of prayer. This to me says it all:

And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

True, if it was about God, why use a megaphone?

 

[Kenny]

That huggy emoticon reminds me of Bishop Ellis.

Something that was written by a wise man... "to the pure, all things are pure".

 

[lewisnotmiller]

.

"An OH School District Wrongly Thinks Student-Led Loudspeaker Prayers Are Legal
​

Earlier this year, the Freedom From Religion Foundation wrote a letter to the West Branch Local School District in Ohio because prayers were being recited over the loudspeaker at school-sponsored events. That’s obviously illegal, and the District agreed to put a stop to it by replacing all those prayers with a moment of silence.

Then they backtracked. On August 20, the school board voted to allow a “limited open forum” at school events. In theory, that means students could lead prayers (which is always legal). But in practice, the District figured that was the loophole they needed to exploit in order to continue the loudspeaker prayers. They didn’t understand that students who decide on their own to pray to Jesus still don’t have the legal right to use the school’s resources to broadcast that prayer.

According to schools Superintendent Timothy Saxton, the addendum “helps us more clearly define and implement our policy allowing student-led voluntary invocations before events. The board felt this resolution gives us more direction as a district and administrative team for future challenges.”

Saxton in an email Thursday praised the board on its action.

“I applaud the board’s decision as it has taken a clear stand and feels that the tradition of allowing (prayer) before home varsity events is something that truly matters to our students and the West Branch Local School District’s strong faith-based community,” he said.
​

Make no mistake: This was all about religion, and letting students use the loudspeaker to promote their religious views at school events was a lawsuit waiting to happen. It’s already happened. Last Friday night, there was a Christian prayer said over the loudspeakers before a football game. The public address announcer said it wasn’t sponsored by the school, but that’s really an irrelevant remark. It was like fine print that no one was ever going to see.

That’s the argument FFRF’s legal fellow Christopher Line made in a letter sent to the District on Friday:

Establishing a “limited public forum” to ensure that students will pray before games, and then including a disclaimer that this is not sponsored by the school does not make this practice legal… The Supreme Court has specifically struck down invocations given over the loudspeaker at public school athletic events, even when students-led.
​

The school has to decide what’s more important: Pushing Jesus on everybody (and dealing with the inevitable lawsuit), or saying no to the prayers and reminding students they can all talk to God silently and telepathically anytime they want. Hell, even if they want to do it vocally and for show, they can do it in the parking lot before the enter. The District shouldn’t be helping them out.

This isn’t complicated. At least it wouldn’t be if the school board gave a damn about following the law."
source​

*sigh* They just don't get it...............Or is it that they don't want to get it? In either case, STUPIDITY AGAIN REIGNS.

.
.​

I'd be interested in the reaction if an Islamic prayer was put over the loudspeaker.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Let"s also not mention death penalty worthy crimes:
Is there a death penalty in Western countries for apostasy or blasphemy against Christianity or any other religion?

Muslim Majority countries where the death penalty can be given for apostasy (turning away from Islam)
Afghanistan, Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar,Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, UAE and as an added bonus, you can also get the death penalty in Pakistan for blasphemy against Islam.
See the difference?

So...you're arguing that Christianity is by degrees better than Islam, or that First World countries are better than others?
To be clear, I think apostophy laws are basically evil. But saying 'He's worse than me' never struck me as an effective way to justify my actions.

 

[Skwim]

I'd be interested in the reaction if an Islamic prayer was put over the loudspeaker.

My bet is that all hell would break loose. After all, this is a Christian nation.

.

 

[Riders]

.

"An OH School District Wrongly Thinks Student-Led Loudspeaker Prayers Are Legal
​

Earlier this year, the Freedom From Religion Foundation wrote a letter to the West Branch Local School District in Ohio because prayers were being recited over the loudspeaker at school-sponsored events. That’s obviously illegal, and the District agreed to put a stop to it by replacing all those prayers with a moment of silence.

Then they backtracked. On August 20, the school board voted to allow a “limited open forum” at school events. In theory, that means students could lead prayers (which is always legal). But in practice, the District figured that was the loophole they needed to exploit in order to continue the loudspeaker prayers. They didn’t understand that students who decide on their own to pray to Jesus still don’t have the legal right to use the school’s resources to broadcast that prayer.

According to schools Superintendent Timothy Saxton, the addendum “helps us more clearly define and implement our policy allowing student-led voluntary invocations before events. The board felt this resolution gives us more direction as a district and administrative team for future challenges.”

Saxton in an email Thursday praised the board on its action.

“I applaud the board’s decision as it has taken a clear stand and feels that the tradition of allowing (prayer) before home varsity events is something that truly matters to our students and the West Branch Local School District’s strong faith-based community,” he said.
​

Make no mistake: This was all about religion, and letting students use the loudspeaker to promote their religious views at school events was a lawsuit waiting to happen. It’s already happened. Last Friday night, there was a Christian prayer said over the loudspeakers before a football game. The public address announcer said it wasn’t sponsored by the school, but that’s really an irrelevant remark. It was like fine print that no one was ever going to see.

That’s the argument FFRF’s legal fellow Christopher Line made in a letter sent to the District on Friday:

Establishing a “limited public forum” to ensure that students will pray before games, and then including a disclaimer that this is not sponsored by the school does not make this practice legal… The Supreme Court has specifically struck down invocations given over the loudspeaker at public school athletic events, even when students-led.
​

The school has to decide what’s more important: Pushing Jesus on everybody (and dealing with the inevitable lawsuit), or saying no to the prayers and reminding students they can all talk to God silently and telepathically anytime they want. Hell, even if they want to do it vocally and for show, they can do it in the parking lot before the enter. The District shouldn’t be helping them out.

This isn’t complicated. At least it wouldn’t be if the school board gave a damn about following the law."
source​

*sigh* They just don't get it...............Or is it that they don't want to get it? In either case, STUPIDITY AGAIN REIGNS.

.
.​

Don't you know Christians have to persecute everyone except themselves. But if they are not allowed to force their Christianity down everyone's throats they interpret it as them being persecuted.

Its like watching someone on LSD or some drug. They persecute everyone is mean to Atheists and mean to non Christians.

Then if they cant force and bully everyone around them into saying prayer with them and being bullied into Christianity they get mad throw a fit and claim their first amendment rights are taken away from them and that they are being persecuted.

Its crazy, but my definition of it? DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Let"s also not mention death penalty worthy crimes:
Is there a death penalty in Western countries for apostasy or blasphemy against Christianity or any other religion?

Muslim Majority countries where the death penalty can be given for apostasy (turning away from Islam)
Afghanistan, Iran, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar,Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen, UAE and as an added bonus, you can also get the death penalty in Pakistan for blasphemy against Islam.
See the difference?

Nice goal post shift. It's never the crime per se that the anti-Muslim alarmists bring up, it's always "they chop off people's heads!" Now, if you want to have a discussion about crimes worthy of the death penalty, cool, we can do that, but that wasn't the issue to which I was responding. If your issue is about reasons for executing someone, that's fine, if your issue is "they chop people's heads off!" than that's a nonsense.

 

[Stanyon]

Nice goal post shift. It's never the crime per se that the anti-Muslim alarmists bring up, it's always "they chop off people's heads!" Now, if you want to have a discussion about crimes worthy of the death penalty, cool, we can do that, but that wasn't the issue to which I was responding. If your issue is about reasons for executing someone, that's fine, if your issue is "they chop people's heads off!" than that's a nonsense.

Well, I'm not an anti-Muslim alarmist or whatever neat little box and label they are putting in and on "those types" of people these days. No, my issue is not with the death penalty, in fact I support it but only in instances where there is absolutely no doubt about someone's guilt (caught in the act etc.) Behead them, hang them, throw them off a cliff, I really don't care. The only reason I support lethal injection is because I see it as far more humane just in case that person was actually innocent, it's not a perfect system so errord are made. My issue is that it depends on what is a death penalty worthy crime, in the west the death penalty is typically given only in the most heinous crimes, torture, murder, etc. and not all U.S. states allow it even in those incidences. In a number of Muslim majority countries, one can get the death penalty for simple blasphemy or changing religions, even just being gay can get you executed. So to attempt to compare the death penalty in the west with Islamic countries seems a bit of a stretch, my problem is not with the methods but the stated reasons for it.

 

[Kenny]

Don't you know Christians have to persecute everyone except themselves. But if they are not allowed to force their Christianity down everyone's throats they interpret it as them being persecuted.

Its like watching someone on LSD or some drug. They persecute everyone is mean to Atheists and mean to non Christians.

Then if they cant force and bully everyone around them into saying prayer with them and being bullied into Christianity they get mad throw a fit and claim their first amendment rights are taken away from them and that they are being persecuted.

Its crazy, but my definition of it? DRUGS DRUGS DRUGS

I feel like you are persecuting me.

 

[DPMartin]

.

"An OH School District Wrongly Thinks Student-Led Loudspeaker Prayers Are Legal
​

Earlier this year, the Freedom From Religion Foundation wrote a letter to the West Branch Local School District in Ohio because prayers were being recited over the loudspeaker at school-sponsored events. That’s obviously illegal, and the District agreed to put a stop to it by replacing all those prayers with a moment of silence.

Then they backtracked. On August 20, the school board voted to allow a “limited open forum” at school events. In theory, that means students could lead prayers (which is always legal). But in practice, the District figured that was the loophole they needed to exploit in order to continue the loudspeaker prayers. They didn’t understand that students who decide on their own to pray to Jesus still don’t have the legal right to use the school’s resources to broadcast that prayer.

According to schools Superintendent Timothy Saxton, the addendum “helps us more clearly define and implement our policy allowing student-led voluntary invocations before events. The board felt this resolution gives us more direction as a district and administrative team for future challenges.”

Saxton in an email Thursday praised the board on its action.

“I applaud the board’s decision as it has taken a clear stand and feels that the tradition of allowing (prayer) before home varsity events is something that truly matters to our students and the West Branch Local School District’s strong faith-based community,” he said.
​

Make no mistake: This was all about religion, and letting students use the loudspeaker to promote their religious views at school events was a lawsuit waiting to happen. It’s already happened. Last Friday night, there was a Christian prayer said over the loudspeakers before a football game. The public address announcer said it wasn’t sponsored by the school, but that’s really an irrelevant remark. It was like fine print that no one was ever going to see.

That’s the argument FFRF’s legal fellow Christopher Line made in a letter sent to the District on Friday:

Establishing a “limited public forum” to ensure that students will pray before games, and then including a disclaimer that this is not sponsored by the school does not make this practice legal… The Supreme Court has specifically struck down invocations given over the loudspeaker at public school athletic events, even when students-led.
​

The school has to decide what’s more important: Pushing Jesus on everybody (and dealing with the inevitable lawsuit), or saying no to the prayers and reminding students they can all talk to God silently and telepathically anytime they want. Hell, even if they want to do it vocally and for show, they can do it in the parking lot before the enter. The District shouldn’t be helping them out.

This isn’t complicated. At least it wouldn’t be if the school board gave a damn about following the law."
source
​

*sigh* They just don't get it...............Or is it that they don't want to get it? In either case, STUPIDITY AGAIN REIGNS.

.
.​

a state sponsored religion is unconstitutional, but to use public places and thing to express one's beliefs are not unconstitutional.

maybe they know more about the law then you do.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

a state sponsored religion is unconstitutional, but to use public places and thing to express one's beliefs are not unconstitutional.

maybe they know more about the law then you do.

The public doesn't have general access to the PA at a school football game. The school curates who can and can't use the school's equipment to address the crowd and thereby endorses what's said using that equipment.

 

[Kenny]

The public doesn't have general access to the PA at a school football game. The school curates who can and can't use the school's equipment to address the crowd and thereby endorses what's said using that equipment.

The general "school" public has access to it and the students are part of that "public" school. They also have equal access to rooms and equal access to speak during non-classroom time.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The general "school" public has access to it and the students are part of that "public" school. They also have equal access to rooms and equal access to speak during non-classroom time.

So you think the school lets anyone and everyone use the PA system at their football games?

 

[Kenny]

So you think the school lets anyone and everyone use the PA system at their football games?

There is a procedure that was apparently met. Equal opportunity, IMO

 

[Skwim]

a state sponsored religion is unconstitutional, but to use public places and thing to express one's beliefs are not unconstitutional.

maybe they know more about the law then you do.

Well, I bet they can at least read better than you can. Try rereading the OP, but in case you still fail to grasp the problem . . .

The whole point of the issue is that it's against the law to use government property, the loudspeaker system in this case, to promote religion, which the school board had been told was illegal. It's Christian hubris writ large and not very pretty.

.

 

[Twilight Hue]

This ruling will probably last until someone at this school has a fit when Satanists or Muslims try to open a game with a prayer or bring in a verse from the Quran. Then we'll see that it was never about religious freedom but rather about Christian privilege once again.

I'm pretty inclined to think that's exactly what will happen. Christians have proved that over and over time and time again.

I personally don't think intellectual ignorance should be advertised in a public educational Institution with exceptions of course to parochial and private institutions.

I probably wouldn't object to a locker room prayer for select students who wish to participate.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It hurts to see how we have not gotten more civilized, we just do more impersonal hostility, like the J-Dam bombs.

Mankind has evolved very little. I think we're more tempered as a species but I think that stability is a come-and-go type of deal.