Now It's Student Led Prayer at Football Games

[Muffled]

Define "promote an open forum"?

I believe an example is when RF allows anyone to post on the site as long as the rules of decorum are followed.

 

[Muffled]

You are free to believe what you like. The Supreme Court disagrees with you, and they determine what the law means and if it's contrary to the Constitution.

I believe the ruling was wrong and why it needs to be challenged.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I believe an example is when RF allows anyone to post on the site as long as the rules of decorum are followed.

RF is privately owned. It isn't a branch of the government like a school is.

And as I pointed out, the sound system at a school football game isn't something that just anyone is allowed to use. The school controls who can and can't use it and what they can and can't say over it.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I believe the ruling was wrong and why it needs to be challenged.

Good for you. Until it is challenged AND changed, that belief doesn't change the law one bit.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I believe the ruling was wrong and why it needs to be challenged.

So you disagree with the idea that government should be religiously neutral?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

I believe an example is when RF allows anyone to post on the site as long as the rules of decorum are followed.

The problem, however, is when one group is preeminent.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I believe the supreme court unjustifiably restricted that freedom of religion.

I believe schools fall under the category of government which is forbidden to promote or forbid a religious practice. As long as they promote an open forum they are protecting the first amendment right of free speech.

A truly open forum wouldn't be that bad. The problem is that this rarely happens in practice.

What generally happens with public prayer is this:

- a governmental body (e.g. a public school or a town council) has explicitly Christian prayers.
- this practice gets challenged, so the body - in theory - opens it up to non-Christian prayers, provided non-Christians come forward to do them.
- if no non-Christians come forward, Christian prayers continue like before.
- if non-Christians come forward, the prayers just get shut down.

So even though plenty of people claim to be treating everyone equally, the choices are still just Christian prayers or nothing.

 

[metis]

Let's for say, the principal and vice principal and the teachers are all Christians, that means they have the right of free excercise of their Religion.

In a public school, they work for a civil government, thus they cannot constitutionally organize religious activities as being part of any school activity, including after hours.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's right, you know the 1st Amendment to the Constitution does say ( Congress shall not make no law respecting an establishment of Religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Now seeing the student was exercising their freedom of Religion. So how is that in violation.
The school had nothing to do with it, The student stood up on their own, and started praying.
Let's for say, the principal and vice principal and the teachers are all Christians, that means they have the right of free excercise of their Religion.

The 1st Amendment does say, free excercise thereof.So that student was in their right of free excercise thereof.
And so was the school free excercise thereof.

There are two issues here:

- making the school Christian interferes with the free exercise of the non-Christians.

- there's also the establishment clause. Every government organization and activity is the result of laws. A law that requires or allows a public school to be religious (the school itself, not the students) is a law that establishes religion and is unconstitutional.

 

[Skwim]

So what's so wrong in that?

How about, it's illegal.

.

 

[Skwim]

I believe the supreme court ruling was wrong and a new court would rule differently.

Doesn't make a difference, does it. There's a law and they broke it.

.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I believe if we want fairness for Christians then we have to accept fairness for others as well.

If that's the case I look forward to you cheering the right of Muslim students to have their call to prayer broadcast over the school announcement system or for a Hindu mantra to be recited over the tannoy. Or for a Satanist prayer to be recited.

That's right, you know the 1st Amendment to the Constitution does say ( Congress shall not make no law respecting an establishment of Religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Now seeing the student was exercising their freedom of Religion. So how is that in violation.
The school had nothing to do with it, The student stood up on their own, and started praying.
Let's for say, the principal and vice principal and the teachers are all Christians, that means they have the right of free excercise of their Religion.

The 1st Amendment does say, free excercise thereof.So that student was in their right of free excercise thereof.
And so was the school free excercise thereof.

Christian students and teachers are free to pray on school property where they can - they don't need any sort of announcement or loudspeaker system to do it. This means removing their ability to pray over the loudspeaker is not restricting their free exercise. Further, allowing them to do so is infringing the free exercise of non-Christians as they are being subject to Christian beliefs in a format where they have no way to refuse or dissent. They are having Christianity forced on them and this whole thing reeks of Christian privilege.

If you want to force your beliefs on other peoples' kids then that's what church is for.

 

[Faithofchristian]

There are two issues here:

- making the school Christian interferes with the free exercise of the non-Christians.

- there's also the establishment clause. Every government organization and activity is the result of laws. A law that requires or allows a public school to be religious (the school itself, not the students) is a law that establishes religion and is unconstitutional.

The school done nothing wrong, Whatever the student did was on their own doings.

Therefore the school iis not in violation
of anything.

The said student has the right to free excercise thereof. Their Religion.
Go Figure

 

[Faithofchristian]

How about, it's illegal.

.

It's not illegal for a student to free excercise thereof their Religion.

 

[Faithofchristian]

If that's the case I look forward to you cheering the right of Muslim students to have their call to prayer broadcast over the school announcement system or for a Hindu mantra to be recited over the tannoy. Or for a Satanist prayer to be recited.




Christian students and teachers are free to pray on school property where they can - they don't need any sort of announcement or loudspeaker system to do it. This means removing their ability to pray over the loudspeaker is not restricting their free exercise. Further, allowing them to do so is infringing the free exercise of non-Christians as they are being subject to Christian beliefs in a format where they have no way to refuse or dissent. They are having Christianity forced on them and this whole thing reeks of Christian privilege.

If you want to force your beliefs on other peoples' kids then that's what church is for.

Nope not at all, if those non-christiane don't want to hear it, then all they have to is cover their ears. That's as simple as it gets

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The school done nothing wrong, Whatever the student did was on their own doings.

So they brought their own PA system?

Therefore the school iis not in violation
of anything.

The said student has the right to free excercise thereof. Their Religion.
Go Figure

Most schools don't allow students to just go up to the microphone at a game and pray. Do you think these schools are violating the free exercise rights of their students?

 

[Faithofchristian]

Doesn't make a difference, does it. There's a law and they broke it.

.

There's no law that says a student can not pray at school.
I would like to see that law, that forebides a student from praying at school.

If a school tells a student they are not to pray and a student pray's anyway, the student is at fault not the school, The school did their job instructing their students not to pray, now if a student does anyway, now it's up to the school to do something or not to do something.

The school could dismiss the student for the rest of the day. Then the student returns back to school the next day.

The school did their job, by sending the student home for the rest of the day.
It's up to the school how they want to handle it.

 

[Faithofchristian]

So they brought their own PA system?


Most schools don't allow students to just go up to the microphone at a game and pray. Do you think these schools are violating the free exercise rights of their students?

Most schools, if not all schools do not stand over their students watching ever move students makes either.

I've been to plenty of high school football game's, where a student is the only one in the announcing booth.

So the student took it upon themselves to pray over the system. So what, nobody got hurt or killed. If some people don't want to hear it, then cover their ears, that will take of that problem.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Nope not at all, if those non-christiane don't want to hear it, then all they have to is cover their ears. That's as simple as it gets

Then you're simply advocating Christian privilege. If you want a practical lesson in why religious privilege is a bad thing, move to Saudi Arabia and try to practice your faith.

 

[Skwim]

It's not illegal for a student to free excercise thereof their Religion.

Good grief, what is your problem? Go back and read the very first post in the thread, and try to ferret out the issue. Let me know what you think it is, and I'll tell you if you're right or not.

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