Now the concentration camps!!

[ADigitalArtist]

I am no fan of either Trump or tent cities, but where would you have them stay while being processed?

@9-10ths_Penguin had a really good post about that over here. Now the concentration camps!!
Long term detainment shouldn't be necessary at all.

 

[Mister Emu]

Two overarching statements to begin my response.

1. Every person, organization, collective, state, etc. of good character has an obligation, of some sort, to offer refuge from violence and aid for poverty.

2. No nation, or group of nations, has the capacity to solve every social and material ill that exists.

We can agree moving forward on these two statements, yes?

"1. The Contracting States shall not impose penalties, on account of their illegal entry or presence, on refugees who, coming directly from a territory where their life or freedom was threatened in the sense of article 1, enter or are present in their territory without authorization, provided they present themselves without delay to the authorities and show good cause for their illegal entry or presence."

As they aren't coming directly from the territory they are fleeing, this would not apply. Do you know of any other statute that would apply to stopping illegal entry from supposed refugees?

9.85 out of 10 times the US has overthrown a government and did our 'nation building' we think we're so much better at than we are...we invariably make things worse. I'd much rather focus on humanitarian efforts than pure military efforts.

That seems an exaggeration. We have an extensive record of success to go with our failures.

 

[Twilight Hue]

There is a big span between bad and the worst it can get. Maybe instead of assuming it's not bad because you dont want them here, you should actually look at their experiences.

So I'm guessing the solution for you is helping people with abandoning their country. Run away essentially.

I'm sure there are a few down there who would just love to take up arms and literally exterminate the problem.

I figure the more "assaults" on our borders by illegals, I can see a little helping hand manifest itself down the line to help the Hondurans out to rectify that.

But of course, I now happily advocate, as an alternative, sending the entire lot of them into California were they can happily live ever more with all the benefits a sanctuary state can provide them.

If that doesn't work, I would say send them all to Canada. If they can sneak pass immigration that is.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

While I agree with it. There's no mistaking the numerous Nazi references made already when talking/debating about this subject.

The Nazi references are apt.

The Nazis didn't start with industrial-scale gas chambers; they worked up to it. What we have now is incarceration on a scale of the Lodz Ghetto, so the US is already doing things well within the spectrum of heinous things the Nazis did.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The Nazi references are apt.

The Nazis didn't start with industrial-scale gas chambers; they worked up to it. What we have now is incarceration on a scale of the Lodz Ghetto, so the US is already doing things well within the spectrum of heinous things the Nazis did.

One distinct difference. We didn't do anything. The illegals did it to themselves.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If that doesn't work, I would say send them all to Canada. If they can sneak pass immigration that is.

Canada is already getting a steady stream of asylum-seekers from the US:

Asylum-seeker surge at Quebec border choking Canada’s refugee system, data show

And a lot of them are people who are legally in the US with temporary status who are scared to death of what will happen when that status runs out.

Because of the Canada-US safe third country agreement, they know they'll be turned away at official border crossings, so they're crossing at other points... like in the forest along the Quebec-Vermont border. In winter. Without proper clothing.

The RCMP has stepped up patrols in the high-traffic areas in the hopes that they'll find these people before they lose a foot to frostbite or die of hypothermia, but that's really what it has come to: your country's regime has people literally risking life and limb to flee from it.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Canada is already getting a steady stream of asylum-seekers from the US:

Asylum-seeker surge at Quebec border choking Canada’s refugee system, data show

And a lot of them are people who are legally in the US with temporary status who are scared to death of what will happen when that status runs out.

Because of the Canada-US safe third country agreement, they know they'll be turned away at official border crossings, so they're crossing at other points... like in the forest along the Quebec-Vermont border. In winter. Without proper clothing.

The RCMP has stepped up patrols in the high-traffic areas in the hopes that they'll find these people before they lose a foot to frostbite or die of hypothermia, but that's really what it has come to: your country's regime has people literally risking life and limb to flee from it.

Well hopefully the word will get out, bypass the US, and flow into Canada.

Being we've become a regime and all.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well hopefully the word will get out, bypass the US, and flow into Canada.

Being we've become a regime and all.

I kinda hope they do. I worry about the fate of any refugee who claims asylum in the US these days.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

As they aren't coming directly from the territory they are fleeing, this would not apply.

I'm not a lawyer, but my impression from hearing about past mass refugee cases is that "coming directly" in this context means something like "moving continuously." I've never heard it interpreted to mean that it only applies to countries immediately adjacent to the one the refugees are fleeing from.

Do you know of any other statute that would apply to stopping illegal entry from supposed refugees?

FYI: the term is "asylum-seeker" or "refugee claimant."

That statute doesn't stop entry of refugees. It addresses what to do once they're in the country.

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

Maybe we should go down to Honduras and bomb the hell out of them and create a safe country for them to go back to.

Knowing our luck we would just make the situation worse then it is.

 

[fantome profane]

Maybe we should go down to Honduras and bomb the hell out of them and create a safe country for them to go back to.

That’s the American way!

[sings]... and the rockets red glare, the bombs bursting in air... [/stops singing].

 

[SkepticThinker]

While I agree with it. There's no mistaking the numerous Nazi references made already when talking/debating about this subject.

Ah. The "dumb" approach. Like it happens to be just an extra busy day at the immigration office.

I'd say that yours would be the "dumb" approach. You're dumbly assuming that everyone coming in the caravan is going to charge the border and swarm in illegally when there's no indication that they are planning anything like that. How many of the previous caravans have done so? You're also dumbly assuming everyone in the caravan is some kind of criminal. I bet you think there are scary Middle Easterners in the caravan as well, right?

 

[SkepticThinker]

One distinct difference. We didn't do anything. The illegals did it to themselves.

Why can't some people get it through their heads that seeking asylum or refuge is not illegal?

It appears that people need to make them illegals in their own minds, because it makes it that much easier to demonize them, in terms of "they did it to themselves" kind of crap.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Why can't some people get it through their heads that seeking asylum or refuge is not illegal?

It appears that people need to make them illegals in their own minds, because it makes it that much easier to demonize them, in terms of "they did it to themselves" kind of crap.

So did they seek permission to go through Mexico?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I'd say that yours would be the "dumb" approach. You're dumbly assuming that everyone coming in the caravan is going to charge the border and swarm in illegally when there's no indication that they are planning anything like that. How many of the previous caravans have done so? You're also dumbly assuming everyone in the caravan is some kind of criminal. I bet you think there are scary Middle Easterners in the caravan as well, right?

I'd say you're pretty naive about it. It's a certainty there's going to be a criminal element within a group of that many people. It's also safe bet there are going to be potential health risks within the group in terms of disease and sickness. You're also pretty naive given that they went about it the wrong way in the first place, not to mention you're naive in terms that this clearly was an organized intentional movement involving a large group of people given that they essentially showed up at once.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So did they seek permission to go through Mexico?

Why don't you go ask them?

 

[metis]

I'm sure they're going to be starved , tortured , and gassed.

Which Buddhist teaching is this position based on?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'd say you're pretty naive about it. It's a certainty there's going to be a criminal element within a group of that many people. It's also safe bet there are going to be potential health risks within the group in terms of disease and sickness. You're also pretty naive given that they went about it the wrong way in the first place, not to mention you're naive in terms that this clearly was an organized intentional movement involving a large group of people given that they essentially showed up at once.

Those are some great Fox News scaremongering points but they're rather overblown, if you ask me.
Disease and sickness are treatable. Big deal.

Are you not aware that people born in American commit crimes at much higher rates than immigrants or asylum seekers and refugees do?
And yet Trump and people of his ilk claim that these caravans are filled with criminal elements and "Middle Easterners." Oh no, not Middle Easterners! Are we not even bothering pretend that we're not xenophobic anymore, at this point? Good grief.

These caravans have been going on for years. Of course they're intentional, these people are afraid for their lives, and safety comes in numbers. There's nothing new here except for the extreme and overblown scaremongering that Trump and others have engaged in. As they move through South American they seem to collect people and lose people as they go. Some stay in some countries, some move on, hoping to get into the US.

This idea that they're all going to swarm the border and invade the US is based on absolutely no evidence. It's all just fearmongering, which I guess makes for good politics, for some people.


How is it that you think they "went about it the wrong way in the first place?"
What is the "right way?"
Is asylum-seeking suddenly illegal?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I'd say you're pretty naive about it. It's a certainty there's going to be a criminal element within a group of that many people. It's also safe bet there are going to be potential health risks within the group in terms of disease and sickness. You're also pretty naive given that they went about it the wrong way in the first place, not to mention you're naive in terms that this clearly was an organized intentional movement involving a large group of people given that they essentially showed up at once.

This is like, word-for-word, the reason why people tried to deny the Jewish ships from Poland, and Irish migrants. Their fears were unfounded xenophobia.

 

[Twilight Hue]

How is it that you think they "went about it the wrong way in the first place?"
What is the "right way?"
Is asylum-seeking suddenly illegal?

The simple fact that they didn't use proper channels going through Mexico legally, sends a strong message that their intentions were likely not to go through proper legal channels here.

As people mentioned this already, they could have just gone to the US consulate and applied properly like so many immigrants have done in the past. It's not like Mexico doesn't have any last time I checked.

It serves also as a valid reminder to people that Mexico offered to take every one of them in as one of their own. Still I would think Mexico is a step up from Honduras if the rhetoric over how bad it is down there serves as any indicator. It's not like they don't have any real place to go.