The Roman Catholics can't accept that the "Mother of God" is anything less than perfect and absolutely sinless from her own conception
Not by any merit of her own but through Christ.
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The Roman Catholics can't accept that the "Mother of God" is anything less than perfect and absolutely sinless from her own conception
So far as I know, nobody would claim the bible says Mary was born without original sin (the Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception). There is a good deal of both doctrine and tradition in the older, pre-Reformation, churches that is not found in the bible but was part of a developed theology derived from it but considerably extended. It is a fairly recent, Protestant "back-to-basics" idea that every concept should be mentioned in the bible.was conceived and born without original sin nor that she was absolutely free of any personal sin. I do believe she was a woman of distinct honor, having been deemed fit by God to bear His only begotten Son, and was saved and that she is forever in heaven. The Roman Catholics can't accept that the "Mother of God" is anything less than perfect and absolutely sinless from her own conception. God made Jesus perfect and sinless in the womb of Mary and free of original sin by the miracle of His divine workings. The holy seed (sperm) of God makes Jesus Christ perfect and absolutely sinless.
Does the Bible say that Mary, mother of Jesus, was born without sin?
To me, Mary herself addressed this issue in the words of the Magnificat (the song of praise that she spoke in response to the greeting of her cousin Elizabeth (the mother of John the Baptist) when Mary went to visit her immediately after Mary had been informed by the angel Gabriel that she was to be the mother of the Messiah). Mary began by saying (Luke 1:46-47), "My soul exalts the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior." If she had truly been without both original and actual sin, she would have had no need to either have or acknowledge a Savior.
She also said in Luke 1:48-50, "For, behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed, for He (God) has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.” Had Mary been totally without sin, she would have had no need to either receive or accept mercy (that is, undeserved favor or forgiveness) from God.
In addition, the Bible records occasions when Mary was mildly rebuked by Jesus Himself for actions or requests that, had she been totally without sin and shared Jesus' complete knowledge of and devotion to His Father's will, she should not have performed or asked (Luke 2:49-50 and John 2:3-4).
The Sermon on the Mount was created in the Book of Matthew AFTER the destruction of the Temple and most probably closer to 100 AD than 70 AD.
You think God set the gospels up to "look mythical" ? Really?
So far as I know, nobody would claim the bible says Mary was born without original sin (the Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception). There is a good deal of both doctrine and tradition in the older, pre-Reformation, churches that is not found in the bible but was part of a developed theology derived from it but considerably extended. It is a fairly recent, Protestant "back-to-basics" idea that every concept should be mentioned in the bible.
But I must say that I have never seen much point in the Immaculate Conception. If one takes the view that Original Sin is a human disposition towards evil, rather than actual sinfulness, then I can't see why Mary would need a free pass from it. But maybe Metis can comment.
You have the advantage of me. I have never watched an American Football match. But it sounds as if Catholics play it.Speaking of passes, needing things and Mary, sometimes a football team needs a Hail Mary pass to win a game or a championship even but for a team to complete such a seemingly-miraculous pass and win, the team has to earn it, on top of any good luck, as the completion of this kind of pass is not free when the QB tosses the ball on up high. Some receiver, back or other downfield position for the offense without butterfingers but with able hands as well as drive and terrific hustle has to catch the ball and maintain possession of it while avoiding a possible interception, no-catch out of bounds or double coverage from the opposing defense. Maybe even God intervenes in a Hail Mary pass situation. If He is a Cowboys fan, and the Lions are attempting the Hail Mary, who knows, an unseen angel might bat the passed ball down to foil the Hail Mary attempt. If God were to favor the Lions, they might succeed in the Hail Mary because Gabriel might blast his trumpet in the ears of the defensive double-coverage players to distract them so the pass is completed for Lions victory. Yes, mythical stories as well as legends can be created even in American football of modern days.
I don't think God intended His works to be perceived by man as mythical. The doubters of this world might think the "mythical patterns" apparent in scripture diminish its credibility or validity. There might be some divine significance as to why stories of the NT seem to follow patterns of stories of the OT.
That strange men in the gospels, the original disciples, began to immediately follow Christ might be yet another miracle from God as His miracles are many. The bible is loaded with miracles.
"Original sin" has been traditionally defined that we are borne of a sinful act which, frankly, seems to be more about Paul's hangup, imo. In more recent times, some Catholic theologians sharply question that interpretation for some obvious reasons.But I must say that I have never seen much point in the Immaculate Conception. If one takes the view that Original Sin is a human disposition towards evil, rather than actual sinfulness, then I can't see why Mary would need a free pass from it. But maybe Metis can comment.
You are correctwas conceived and born without original sin nor that she was absolutely free of any personal sin. I do believe she was a woman of distinct honor, having been deemed fit by God to bear His only begotten Son, and was saved and that she is forever in heaven. The Roman Catholics can't accept that the "Mother of God" is anything less than perfect and absolutely sinless from her own conception. God made Jesus perfect and sinless in the womb of Mary and free of original sin by the miracle of His divine workings. The holy seed (sperm) of God makes Jesus Christ perfect and absolutely sinless.
Does the Bible say that Mary, mother of Jesus, was born without sin?
To me, Mary herself addressed this issue in the words of the Magnificat (the song of praise that she spoke in response to the greeting of her cousin Elizabeth (the mother of John the Baptist) when Mary went to visit her immediately after Mary had been informed by the angel Gabriel that she was to be the mother of the Messiah). Mary began by saying (Luke 1:46-47), "My soul exalts the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior." If she had truly been without both original and actual sin, she would have had no need to either have or acknowledge a Savior.
She also said in Luke 1:48-50, "For, behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed, for He (God) has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.” Had Mary been totally without sin, she would have had no need to either receive or accept mercy (that is, undeserved favor or forgiveness) from God.
In addition, the Bible records occasions when Mary was mildly rebuked by Jesus Himself for actions or requests that, had she been totally without sin and shared Jesus' complete knowledge of and devotion to His Father's will, she should not have performed or asked (Luke 2:49-50 and John 2:3-4).
You sad it, it must be so. I don't think so. Are you a myth ?Most of that is myth.. Its not in human nature to walk away from your life with a stranger. Lies and embellishments ultimately backfire.
I didn't watch the entire vid but yes the intro is valid at least to a degree. I may watch it but I would like to know how he understands the term myth.The most important video.. Mythical writings explained.
[video]
Say for the sake of argument Mary, was not perfect. Nevertheless, she bore a child who was the son of God. This paradox would imply that biology alone is a not a sufficient condition for divinity. It would imply that free will and choice plays a role. DNA does not guarantee or preclude anything.
If you took a group of babies, with the exact same DNA; clones, and placed them, at birth, in various environments; rich, poor, safe, stressful, they will all be physically the same, but development and temperament could be all over the board. Environment plays a role in the emotional, intellectual, psychological and spiritual development. These differences are not just the due to the environment, but also can be due to choices made at various crossroads of life. One bad or one good choice can define a life.
In Jewish tradition, one's connection to the Jewish tribe was based on maternal DNA; bloodline on mothers side. Jesus was a Jew in terms of this biological definition; mother Mary, even if he was not orthodox, by choice.
Mary, was a subset of being Jewish. She was biologically a Jew, but also unique and part of a unique environment, for Jesus, based on her own choices. This was based on faith in God, for her blessing,which when combined with the choices of Jesus, led to the full divinity of Jesus; his mission becomes clear.
For example, Jesus was given choices in the wilderness, by Satan, which could have altered the outcome. Jesus would have become the rich and powerful Messiah anticipated by the Jewish people., who would subdue all enemies. However, choices made earlier in life made another path clear.
The choice for salvation is not innate or based DNA, but has to be groomed and then chosen. One reason Christianity spread was because it was not about bloodline or DNA. It was about a choice for salvation, regardless of DNA or environment; beyond the tribal or class system. This was a 2000 year old scientific theory which said that free will exists apart from the DNA; divine soul.
The good ole days when being a heretic had consequences! Today everyone plays fast and loose with no consequences. It is a god forsaken world I tell you.@Jonathan Bailey , your objections to the Roman Catholic Doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of Mary the God-bearer have been noted, recorded, and sent to our Holy Father, Pope Francis. You should be receiving the Pope's summons soon, ordering you to report to Rome to answer charges of heresy. You would do well to study the Church's teachings regarding the Doctrine at issue in the meantime. Take care, Terry Sampson
Biblical Support for Mary’s Immaculate Conception
"With God anything is possible"That guy with curly hair and glasses is trying to "debunk" the so-called myth of the Gospels.
With God anything is possible. Anything is awesome. Anything is extraordinary. Anything is amazing.
The Gospels are all true to the letter. God just set all the events up to seem "mythical".
This stuff about the Immaculate Conception makes me want to get back into a Protestant church again,
albeit an LGBT-affirmed one (unlike the United Methodist Church I was baptised in and permitted women ministers
and didn't condone homsexualty in its social principles) and one where it is forbidden for any woman to be ordained.
The minister who baptised me, Pastor Conrad, was a man and I have a baptismal certificate with his signature. I still accept this baptism
as a true Christian baptism which is needed for me to enter the Kingdom of God upon my own death. Rev. Conrad, to the best of my memory, baptised me at age 17 by placing two or more of his fingers in a bowl of water (possibly holy water from the River Jordan)
and then placing such wet fingers upon my head and declaring me baptised. I can't remember if if he said he baptized me in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, however. I do know that the United Methodists did, in 1981,use the term Holy Ghost and not Holy Spirit.
Some churches, when one joins a church other than their baptismal church, may or may not recognize the other' church's baptism as valid.
" Protestant "back-to-basics" idea that every concept should be mentioned in the bible"So far as I know, nobody would claim the bible says Mary was born without original sin (the Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception). There is a good deal of both doctrine and tradition in the older, pre-Reformation, churches that is not found in the bible but was part of a developed theology derived from it but considerably extended. It is a fairly recent, Protestant "back-to-basics" idea that every concept should be mentioned in the bible.
But I must say that I have never seen much point in the Immaculate Conception. If one takes the view that Original Sin is a human disposition towards evil, rather than actual sinfulness, then I can't see why Mary would need a free pass from it. But maybe Metis can comment.
That guy with curly hair and glasses is trying to "debunk" the so-called myth of the Gospels.
With God anything is possible. Anything is awesome. Anything is extraordinary. Anything is amazing.
The Gospels are all true to the letter. God just set all the events up to seem "mythical".
This stuff about the Immaculate Conception makes me want to get back into a Protestant church again,
albeit an LGBT-affirmed one (unlike the United Methodist Church I was baptised in and permitted women ministers
and didn't condone homsexualty in its social principles) and one where it is forbidden for any woman to be ordained.
The minister who baptised me, Pastor Conrad, was a man and I have a baptismal certificate with his signature. I still accept this baptism
as a true Christian baptism which is needed for me to enter the Kingdom of God upon my own death. Rev. Conrad, to the best of my memory, baptised me at age 17 by placing two or more of his fingers in a bowl of water (possibly holy water from the River Jordan)
and then placing such wet fingers upon my head and declaring me baptised. I can't remember if if he said he baptized me in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, however. I do know that the United Methodists did, in 1981,use the term Holy Ghost and not Holy Spirit.
Some churches, when one joins a church other than their baptismal church, may or may not recognize the other' church's baptism as valid.
I suppose I won't mention the other Mary as being the founder of Christianity that would be way way to confusing.was conceived and born without original sin nor that she was absolutely free of any personal sin. I do believe she was a woman of distinct honor, having been deemed fit by God to bear His only begotten Son, and was saved and that she is forever in heaven. The Roman Catholics can't accept that the "Mother of God" is anything less than perfect and absolutely sinless from her own conception. God made Jesus perfect and sinless in the womb of Mary and free of original sin by the miracle of His divine workings. The holy seed (sperm) of God makes Jesus Christ perfect and absolutely sinless.
Does the Bible say that Mary, mother of Jesus, was born without sin?
To me, Mary herself addressed this issue in the words of the Magnificat (the song of praise that she spoke in response to the greeting of her cousin Elizabeth (the mother of John the Baptist) when Mary went to visit her immediately after Mary had been informed by the angel Gabriel that she was to be the mother of the Messiah). Mary began by saying (Luke 1:46-47), "My soul exalts the Lord, and my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior." If she had truly been without both original and actual sin, she would have had no need to either have or acknowledge a Savior.
She also said in Luke 1:48-50, "For, behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed, for He (God) has done great things for me, and holy is His name. And His mercy is on those who fear Him from generation to generation.” Had Mary been totally without sin, she would have had no need to either receive or accept mercy (that is, undeserved favor or forgiveness) from God.
In addition, the Bible records occasions when Mary was mildly rebuked by Jesus Himself for actions or requests that, had she been totally without sin and shared Jesus' complete knowledge of and devotion to His Father's will, she should not have performed or asked (Luke 2:49-50 and John 2:3-4).
Really? like what, it doesn't happen in science.? I mean you know you are complaining about normal right?The Gospels are all true to the letter. God just set all the events up to seem "mythical".
I'm continually amazed how some believers are forced to twist logic and reason into a pretzel in order to justify their ridiculous beliefs.
Really? like what, it doesn't happen in science.? I mean you know you are complaining about normal right?
I mean haven't you been married for petesake. Hell every sane married male knows twisted logic into a pretzel daily. Logic has nothing to do with anything but building crap. This isn't an auto repair forum!!
I'm continually amazed how some believers are forced to twist logic and reason into a pretzel in order to justify their ridiculous beliefs.
=/= “I can believe anything I want.”"With God anything is possible"