Oath on the Bible by a Muslim?

[Quiddity]

In light of Scott’s post:
……Islam does not "stand on its own" but has at its core the Jewish and Christian faiths and they believe you can't understand Islam correctly without the context of knowing about Judaism and Christianity.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42503

I was trying to understand why American Muslim politician was having a difficult time doing his oath on the Bible if the above comment by Scott seems to have gotten good feedback from our Muslim members. What seems to be the problem?

~Victor

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

I think some muslims have a bit of a stigma about the bible. Many muslims equate bible=trinity=shirk. There's a bit of a misconception though on the muslim behalf. Some muslims errantly believe that the bible is 100% corrupted, but its not. There is still a great amount of truth in it as we believe it to also be a book from Allah (minus Pauls part). However we feel much better making qasm (swearing an oath) on the name of Allah than any other way. Personally, I don't think there's a real iman (faith) issue against swearing with your hand on the bible. Just because we read or touch the bible doesn't mean we will automatically will be accepting the trinity or whatever.

 

[Quiddity]

I think some muslims have a bit of a stigma about the bible. Many muslims equate bible=trinity=shirk. There's a bit of a misconception though on the muslim behalf. Some muslims errantly believe that the bible is 100% corrupted, but its not. There is still a great amount of truth in it as we believe it to also be a book from Allah (minus Pauls part). However we feel much better making qasm (swearing an oath) on the name of Allah than any other way. Personally, I don't think there's a real iman (faith) issue against swearing with your hand on the bible. Just because we read or touch the bible doesn't mean we will automatically will be accepting the trinity or whatever.

Thanks, that was helpful. That's certainly how I was seeing it as well.

 

[jamaesi]

Would you be comfortable with swearing on the TaNaKh, Book of Mormon, or Bahá'í literature?

I have read and still am reading many Holy Books. I find them all fascinating and think they all have a lot of worth and value. However- I am a Muslim. The Holy Book of my religion is the Qur'an. I would not feel right swearing on anything but the Qur'an.

 

[Quiddity]

Would you be comfortable with swearing on the TaNaKh, Book of Mormon, or Bahá'í literature?

I have read and still am reading many Holy Books. I find them all fascinating and think they all have a lot of worth and value. However- I am a Muslim. The Holy Book of my religion is the Qur'an. I would not feel right swearing on anything but the Qur'an.

I would if I believed what Islam believed (as noted in the OP). But since I don't hold to such a belief it would entirely depend on how much I knew about the faith and how it correlated with my own beliefs.

 

[Green Gaia]

I find it disturbing that we require that public officials swear an oath on any religious text in order to take office. Shouldn't they be swearing on the laws of the country to uphold them?

 

[Quiddity]

I find it disturbing that we require that public officials swear an oath on any religious text in order to take office. Shouldn't they be swearing on the laws of the country to uphold them?

I asked an atheist lawyer about that once. He said he did it, not for religious reasons of any sort, but simply for traditional reasons of what it signifies. That it didn't matter to him what religious text it was because he understood the concept of an oath.

I can understand someone finding it disturbing because they are from another religion, but find it harder to understand why non-theists would. I just don't get it.

 

[jamaesi]

I would if I believed what Islam believed (as noted in the OP). But since I don't hold to such a belief it would entirely depend on how much I knew about the faith and how it correlated with my own beliefs.

If you believed in Islam then you'd be a Muslim and then you'd have the problem of swearing on the Bible.

 

[YmirGF]

It's really no more than the cosmic trump card. If you lie, God is gonna get you for it. If one does not believe in the underlying premise then the oath itself is wafer thin. It is sort of like asking a gossip, "Pssst. Can you keep a secret?" Gleefully, they will agree. If you ask an atheist to "swear to god" does it really have any true meaning to the atheist?

 

[Quiddity]

If you believed in Islam then you'd be a Muslim and then you'd have the problem of swearing on the Bible.

Apparently not. I don't think I'm alone in my understanding of the OP (it received a positive Muslim response) and can't see why it would be problem.

 

[BUDDY]

If you believed in Islam then you'd be a Muslim and then you'd have the problem of swearing on the Bible.

You're missing the point entirely. The Islamic faith holds that the Bible is a holy book. This politician didn't swear on the book because because he is muslim, i.e. would rather swear on the Qur'an. So the Qur'an is more holy than the Bible? Or only the Qur'an is good enough for him to swear upon? If he believe both of them to have merit from a religious faith point of view, why would there be such a problem? Of course, I suspect that if answered honestly, this person would say that it was just asimple attempt at creating some drama and bringing attention to his faith.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

It's really no more than the cosmic trump card. If you lie, God is gonna get you for it. If one does not believe in the underlying premise then the oath itself is wafer thin. It is sort of like asking a gossip, "Pssst. Can you keep a secret?" Gleefully, they will agree. If you ask an atheist to "swear to god" does it really have any true meaning to the atheist?

I agree. If they were smart they would make him swear on the Quran, a christian swear on the bible, an atheist to swear on the actual lawbook, and so on. Or they could just chuck the whole "swear on a holy book" deal and just make them promise. The thing is though, does it really matter to swear? If you're a liar and intend to be a crooked politician then you're going to most likely break the oath anyway.

 

[BUDDY]

The importance of the oath is not on what book you place your hand, the importance of the oath is who you are giving your oath too. I think this politician has it backwords. Is his word not good unless he has his hand upon the Qu'ran? That would make me wonder. His word and his oath to the American people to hold up the law, should be good regardless of what book he places his hand upon. He could have a Dr. Seuss book for all I care, I still would expect him to keep his oath. That goes for anyone else as well. Which leads me back to my belief that this is really all about him, not about his real feelings concerning the book.

 

[Radio Frequency X]

I'd rather sware on a copy of Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, but they don't give me that option. However, in America, we use the Bible out of custom. It is meaningless, so why not just put your hand on it and say, "blah blah blah"? It don't see why people care so much. I've never had a problem putting my hand on the Bible and swaring an oath, regardless of my religious beliefs at the time.

 

[Green Gaia]

I asked an atheist lawyer about that once. He said he did it, not for religious reasons of any sort, but simply for traditional reasons of what it signifies. That it didn't matter to him what religious text it was because he understood the concept of an oath.

I can understand someone finding it disturbing because they are from another religion, but find it harder to understand why non-theists would. I just don't get it.

I don't understand why anyone is required to swear on any religious text to being with. If I were to win a public office (haha) I would have a big problem with this. I don't believe in the Bible, I don't believe in the Koran. Why would I have to swear on them? It would be meaningless and hypocritical.

 

[Quiddity]

I don't understand why anyone is required to swear on any religious text to being with. If I were to win a public office (haha) I would have a big problem with this. I don't believe in the Bible, I don't believe in the Koran. Why would I have to swear on them? It would be meaningless and hypocritical.

That's fine, I just don't get why there is this motivated anti-religious symbology movement. It just really makes it look like anti-religious vs. all religions. Granted I know that is not something you would support but I can't help but notice it coming.

 

[Faint]

I find it disturbing that we require that public officials swear an oath on any religious text in order to take office. Shouldn't they be swearing on the laws of the country to uphold them?

Yes. Breaking the oath is a matter of perjury. The court system is and should be unconcerned with the fate of one's soul.

And if it's a question of whether or not swearing on the book of a religion (one that you do not believe in) acts as a deterent to lying...I think we all know the answer to that.

 

[Radio Frequency X]

I don't understand why anyone is required to swear on any religious text to being with. If I were to win a public office (haha) I would have a big problem with this. I don't believe in the Bible, I don't believe in the Koran. Why would I have to swear on them? It would be meaningless and hypocritical.

It is meaningless, which makes me suspect that it doesn't matter. And if it doesn't matter, why should we care? Besides, it's harmless. It's just something to put your hand on while you follow some legal formality.

 

[Faint]

I'd rather sware on a copy of Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged, but they don't give me that option.

If it's a matter of tradition to swear on some book that has meaning to you, maybe they should give you the option to choose a book.

Haha..."I solemnly swear, on Gandalf and Frodo..."

 

[Radio Frequency X]

If it's a matter of tradition to swear on some book that has meaning to you, maybe they should give you the option to choose a book.

Haha..."I solemnly swear, on Gandalf and Frodo..."

Well, its not a tradition that we swear on a book that matters to us, we swear on a book that mattered to the people who established our nation. Personally, I don't think that swearing on a book endorces the content of that book. These types of things are superstitious, the idea being that while we might lie before a judge, we'd never lie before God. Which is silly. Most people have no problem lying to themselves or their families, so I can't imagine that the fear of God is really going to prevent them from being less than truthful.