Oath on the Bible by a Muslim?

[Ryan2065]

In light of Scott’s post:
……Islam does not "stand on its own" but has at its core the Jewish and Christian faiths and they believe you can't understand Islam correctly without the context of knowing about Judaism and Christianity.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42503

I was trying to understand why American Muslim politician was having a difficult time doing his oath on the Bible if the above comment by Scott seems to have gotten good feedback from our Muslim members. What seems to be the problem?

You have to know about the bible... This is completely different than believing in the bible. I know about Star Wars... I don't believe in the force, however. Making an oath on a book implies you hold that book dear to your heart and you believe in what the book says... Otherwise an oath on that book is pretty meaningless and stupid.

If a non-Christian does an oath on a Christian book it can be seen as mis-leading in somes eyes... I could see why they would ask for their own holy book to swear an oath over rather than the Christian holy book.

I believe the Muslim did ask for a copy of the Koran to swear an oath on... I actually think this is better of him. He respects the oath he makes enough to make it on a book that he holds dear to his heart rather than just go through the motions. Too many people in office swear an oath on a book they do not believe in and this signifies to me that they do not believe in the oath they took.

 

[Nullifidian]

As I understand it, swearing on or by any holy book is not a part of the swearing in ceremony. And even if it were, in light of Matthew 5:34:

But I say unto you, swear not at all; neither by heaven for it is God's throne; nor by the earth for it is his footstool.

and
James 5:12

But above all things, brethren, swear not, neither by heaven, neither by the earth, neither by any other oath: but let your yea be yea; and your nay, nay; lest ye fall into condemnation.

swearing is forbidden in the Christian religion anyway.

 

[BUDDY]

You have to know about the bible... This is completely different than believing in the bible. I know about Star Wars... I don't believe in the force, however. Making an oath on a book implies you hold that book dear to your heart and you believe in what the book says... Otherwise an oath on that book is pretty meaningless and stupid.

If a non-Christian does an oath on a Christian book it can be seen as mis-leading in somes eyes... I could see why they would ask for their own holy book to swear an oath over rather than the Christian holy book.

I believe the Muslim did ask for a copy of the Koran to swear an oath on... I actually think this is better of him. He respects the oath he makes enough to make it on a book that he holds dear to his heart rather than just go through the motions. Too many people in office swear an oath on a book they do not believe in and this signifies to me that they do not believe in the oath they took.

Then what would you call the numerous numbers of Jewish representaives who have been elected and swore the oath as tradition has intended. Have you looked at the actual oath? It says nothing about the Bible.

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

What part of this oath relies on having your hand on a book to complete? None of it. So why should it matter?

 

[Mathematician]

tradition has intended.

If you disagree with tradition than to adhere to it is to go against yourself.

 

[BUDDY]

Why adhere to tradition when you don't support it?

That is exactly the attitude that is the problem. An elected official should realize that it is not about them, it is about those that he/she represents. Unless the American people have a problem with sucha tradition, why should an elected official suddnly coem forward and make a big spat about it, unless they were just trying to call attention to themselves? And in this particular instance, belief/non-belief is not the issue since muslims believe that the Bible is a holy book.

 

[Mathematician]

That is exactly the attitude that is the problem. An elected official should realize that it is not about them, it is about those that he/she represents. Unless the American people have a problem with sucha tradition, why should an elected official suddnly coem forward and make a big spat about it, unless they were just trying to call attention to themselves? And in this particular instance, belief/non-belief is not the issue since muslims believe that the Bible is a holy book.

From the lack of attention this news article is getting I assume not too many people in his district had a problem with him swearing on the Quran, either. If those he's representing have a nuetral opinion about the matter, then where does such an arguement come in?

And where are you concluding he was trying to draw attention? Politicians use their religion as lightning rods all the time, but I don't see it here. Putting a hand on the Bible while reciting an oath is not legislated for a reason. It's a de facto gesture that simply implies the oath sayer is affirming that if he breaks his swear, he knows he will be held accountable later on in life by his God. It would only make sense that someone who disagrees with the Bible would use his own religious book. You wouldn't make a promise while crossing your fingers in plain sight.

 

[Ryan2065]

Then what would you call the numerous numbers of Jewish representaives who have been elected and swore the oath as tradition has intended. Have you looked at the actual oath? It says nothing about the Bible.

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

What part of this oath relies on having your hand on a book to complete? None of it. So why should it matter?

While the oath does not mention the bible the fact that you put your hand on the bible while yous ay the oath brings god AND the bible into the oath wether you want them in there or not. Didn't you ever hear the phrase "actions speak louder than words" ?

 

[gnomon]

My utmost respect to the first elected president who refuses to place their hand on any book and give an oath while uttering the phrase "the people put me here, not God.".

I wonder why anyone would question why a Muslim or any other follower of another religion would rather take an oath on their holy sacrament rather than the bible. To even ask the question is rather ... snobbish.

 

[Scott1]

I would have no problem swearing an oath on the Koran... same God... same promise.

 

[jamaesi]

You're missing the point entirely. The Islamic faith holds that the Bible is a holy book. This politician didn't swear on the book because because he is muslim, i.e. would rather swear on the Qur'an. So the Qur'an is more holy than the Bible? Or only the Qur'an is good enough for him to swear upon? If he believe both of them to have merit from a religious faith point of view, why would there be such a problem? Of course, I suspect that if answered honestly, this person would say that it was just asimple attempt at creating some drama and bringing attention to his faith.

...

And in this particular instance, belief/non-belief is not the issue since muslims believe that the Bible is a holy book.

I am NOT missing the point. The point is that the Bible is not my holy book. I think the Book of Mormon is a holy book of the Christian faith but I'd never swear on it.

 

[Scott1]

The point is that the Bible is not my holy book. I think the Book of Mormon is a holy book of the Christian faith but I'd never swear on it.

I can respect that.... but I don't understand it: for God indeed has full knowledge of us all, and is present in all the Holy Books of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims.

Peace be with you,
Scott

 

[jamaesi]

I can respect that.... but I don't understand it: for God indeed has full knowledge of us all, and is present in all the Holy Books of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims.

I know more about my religion than I do about other religions. I do believe all Holy Books are from the same G-d but I don't know them all well enough to feel comfortable swearing on them. And again, I'm MUSLIM. I'm not a Christian. We might have the same G-d but we have different books and different ways of acknowledging G-d.

 

[Scott1]

I know more about my religion than I do about other religions. I do believe all Holy Books are from the same G-d but I don't know them all well enough to feel comfortable swearing on them. And again, I'm MUSLIM. I'm not a Christian. We might have the same G-d but we have different books and different ways of acknowledging G-d.

Ok... again... I think I understand, but we just look at an oath in a different way.

God is not trapped "inside" the Koran or other Holy Book... when we pray or swear, God knows your heart and would not harm an atom of your body no matter what book you used... hope you understand----just wanted to give you my opinion.

Thanks,
S

 

[jamaesi]

God is not trapped "inside" the Koran or other Holy Book... when we pray or swear, God knows your heart and would not harm an atom of your body no matter what book you used... hope you understand----just wanted to give you my opinion.

I don't think that.

I also do not think that you would cover your head, grow a beard, and pray five times a day in the right direction even though it's worshipping the same G-d. I wouldn't go through a Wiccan ritual even if it was in worship of my G-d- that's jsut not how I roll, you know?

This is like saying I could stop dressing modestly and just wear a g-string in public and shake what my momma gave me as I waltz down the street because G-d knows I'm not trying to put on a show for everyone. It's just not what I do or part of how I am comfortable worshipping.

 

[Scott1]

I also do not think that you would cover your head, grow a beard, and pray five times a day in the right direction even though it's worshipping the same G-d.

Not sure what the "right" direction is, but I sure would.... not sure how that would change who I am, though.... ????

I wouldn't go through a Wiccan ritual even if it was in worship of my G-d- that's jsut not how I roll, you know?

Wiccans do not worship the One True God.... so your example makes no sense.

This is like saying I could stop dressing modestly and just wear a g-string in public and shake what my momma gave me as I waltz down the street because G-d knows I'm not trying to put on a show for everyone. It's just not what I do or part of how I am comfortable worshipping.

How does that compare to swearing an oath on a Bible written BY GOD?

 

[Mathematician]

Just curious, but how is the Bible a holy book for Moslims when it contains blasphemous verses?

John 4:

13We know that we live in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God. 16And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

Also, Teddy Roosevelt didn't put his hand on the Bible. No one seems to have mind.

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Just curious, but how is the Bible a holy book for Moslims when it contains blasphemous verses?

We believe the Torah and the Injeel are from Allah. However, we feel they have been somewhat corrupted through time, and therefore not 100% reliable. There is a great deal of truth in them still as they are actually from Allah. Plus we must believe in all the prophets of Allah including the books they were sent with.

 

[TashaN]

In light of Scott’s post:
……Islam does not "stand on its own" but has at its core the Jewish and Christian faiths and they believe you can't understand Islam correctly without the context of knowing about Judaism and Christianity.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42503

I was trying to understand why American Muslim politician was having a difficult time doing his oath on the Bible if the above comment by Scott seems to have gotten good feedback from our Muslim members. What seems to be the problem?

~Victor

You might be interested to check my post in here:

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42503&page=2

Post # 70.

Why would a Muslim make oath on the bible?

It's unreasonable because Muslims have only one holy book which is the Quran and while a Muslim can't be a Muslim if he/she doesn't believe in all the pervious scriptures like the Torah and Injil for instance but Allah told us that these revelations were for spesific people in a specific time and we can only deal with the Quran as the true message and revelation of God because the Quran corrected many things which was written in the bible. Therefore, we can't make oath on it.

 

[TashaN]

You're missing the point entirely. The Islamic faith holds that the Bible is a holy book.

Not the bible but the Torah and the Injil in it's original form.

Of course, I suspect that if answered honestly, this person would say that it was just asimple attempt at creating some drama and bringing attention to his faith.

Attention to his faith because he doesn't want to use the bible as his religious scripture?

I wonder if you can make oath on the Quran in front of all your fellow christians !

 

[gnomon]

Wouldn't it be better if no such oaths were administered at all? All these elected officials do is cheapen their religious belief by taking such oaths. While it has always been the Bible in the past it now looks like the Koran will now be included in such trivial disintinction.