Obama Commutes Chelsea(Bradley) Manning's Sentence

[Shadow Wolf]

I am aware of the "treatment" offered but to say it is the best is absurd, involving oneself into others delusions is unsafe and hazardous.

There are no delusions about it. Their brains are literally structured far more like the sex they identify as (even without hormone treatment) than what they are assigned at birth as. And of course no medical treatment is without its risks, but pre-treatment transsexuals are already at a high risk of suicide. Treatment greatly reduces that.

To force the rest of society to acknowledge a cognitive disorder as valid and natural is absurd.

It is not a cognitive disorder. If transitioning was a cognitive disorder and unsafe and hazardous thing, we could expect those who are treated to worsen in their overall emotional state, but we find the exact opposite. They go from being emotional wrecks of despair who often want to die to being happy and functioning just fine.

 

[Sha'irullah]

There are no delusions about it. Their brains are literally structured far more like the sex they identify as (even without hormone treatment) than what they are assigned at birth as. And of course no medical treatment is without its risks, but pre-treatment transsexuals are already at a high risk of suicide. Treatment greatly reduces that.

You are literally describing a cognitive impairment more if anything. I can throw Bipolarism at you with this sort of thinking.

It is not a cognitive disorder. If transitioning was a cognitive disorder and unsafe and hazardous thing, we could expect those who are treated to worsen in their overall emotional state, but we find the exact opposite. They go from being emotional wrecks of despair who often want to die to being happy and functioning just fine.

You obviously do not do much research on mental health. ANybody who has somebody indulge in their delusions will be more happier. This is not remotely a judge of mental illness. If you have ever dealt with a senile elder first hand you will see this for yourself. They will pick favorites with whoever will indulge with their delusions which is why they have sporadic temperaments based on the recipient of their attention. It is simply the way it works.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You are literally describing a cognitive impairment more if anything. I can throw Bipolarism at you with this sort of thinking.

The cognitive impairment tends to come in low-self esteem, poor self-image, depression, anxiety, and a high risk of suicide. Transitioning has far better results than what many psychotropic and other medications, and these cognitive impairments generally improve.
With bipolar disorder they experience what they often describe as an "emotional roller coaster" of highs/manias and lows/depression. These moods can last from just a few moments to over a month. They struggle to function because they are either high off mania which can lead to impulsive, high risk, and destructive behavior or they lack the motivation to do anything, often including live. They too are of a high risk suicide group. Cognitive, behavioral, and mood-management works wonders, as does medication. The treatment, really at its very essence, is no different than a sex/gender change as they both require changes in living habits, changes in situations, and learning to work your way through such emotional difficulties, and coming out better than you were, and always working towards improvement. When it comes to gender dysphoria, no other treatment has ever produced such results, but, rather, much like we see in the so-called "conversion 'therapy,'" clients tend to worsen in their condition.
Now, you can try to claim science is on your side, you are saying "bipolarism," I have access to journal databases and a degree. If things go well, I'll even be starting internships and supervised clinical hours next spring semester. Not to gloat, but when you want to say "science is driven by facts," yes, it very much is; Those facts, gathered across pretty much every field related to neuropsychology, biology, and every discipline of the social sciences, do not agree with you.

ANybody who has somebody indulge in their delusions will be more happier.

If you've every known someone who does suffer from delusions, even they often know they aren't better off. People with Bipolar Disorder are often aware they are not better off. Those with gender dysphoria know they are not better off living as they were assigned at birth.

 

[Sha'irullah]

The cognitive impairment tends to come in low-self esteem, poor self-image, depression, anxiety, and a high risk of suicide. Transitioning has far better results than what many psychotropic and other medications, and these cognitive impairments generally improve.
With bipolar disorder they experience what they often describe as an "emotional roller coaster" of highs/manias and lows/depression. These moods can last from just a few moments to over a month. They struggle to function because they are either high off mania which can lead to impulsive, high risk, and destructive behavior or they lack the motivation to do anything, often including live. They too are of a high risk suicide group. Cognitive, behavioral, and mood-management works wonders, as does medication. The treatment, really at its very essence, is no different than a sex/gender change as they both require changes in living habits, changes in situations, and learning to work your way through such emotional difficulties, and coming out better than you were, and always working towards improvement. When it comes to gender dysphoria, no other treatment has ever produced such results, but, rather, much like we see in the so-called "conversion 'therapy,'" clients tend to worsen in their condition.
Now, you can try to claim science is on your side, you are saying "bipolarism," I have access to journal databases and a degree. If things go well, I'll even be starting internships and supervised clinical hours next spring semester. Not to gloat, but when you want to say "science is driven by facts," yes, it very much is; Those facts, gathered across pretty much every field related to neuropsychology, biology, and every discipline of the social sciences, do not agree with you.

Degree toting does not frighten me, I had to school a 60 year old something philosophy professor on Nietzsche. So much for education! You can talk about results till the day ends but it does not mean I or anybody else should be forced to acknowledge that said person as a man or woman. To divert a topic on how to best deal with as if I made that a subject of debate is a flat out red-herring.

You said earlier that if gender dysphoria was a mental illness which you seem to be acknowledging since you are asserting there is "treatment," then why would you set such a ludicrous and unscientific standard to disacknowledge it?
Your reasoning goes like this for example:

Guns are not dangerous because we have body armor.
Body armor can handle the effects of gunfire.
Henceforth guns are not capable of killing.
. . .
Gender dysphoria is not a psychological illness.
We can change you into whatever sex need be.
Henceforth it is a natural thing.
. . .

1. Guns are dangerous because they have the POTENTIAL to kill.
1. Gender dysphoria is a cognitive impairment. In the sense that it creates issues and is not a natural occurrence. Remember only until recently could we "cure" it .

2. Body armor does stop gunfire, we have seen its effects and know its capabilities.
2. Obviously we can biologically alter a person to appear like a different sex. They are by no means in any true form that real sex and never will be unless medical biology REALLY makes some advances.

3. Guns are capable of killing even if they can be stopped by body armor. The issue being is that not everybody has body armor and body armor is not the issue at hand, the gun is.
3. Gender dysphoria is a psychological impairment as it is an abnormality that creates unrealistic expectations creating trauma for a person. Yes this trauma can be solved by offering an illusion but the illusion is not the real fix.

. . . . . . . . .

The fallaciousness of your argument is appalling. I have spent years of my youth studying philosophy only to see arguments that this being used by somebody in the sciences. Just because you can fix something does not make the problem a non-threat. I am not saying transexualism is a threat though.

If you've every known someone who does suffer from delusions, even they often know they aren't better off. People with Bipolar Disorder are often aware they are not better off. Those with gender dysphoria know they are not better off living as they were assigned at birth.

As I said before, you must have never dealt with a person who has serious cognitive impairments and delusions. I have dealt with one for well over 10 years.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Some whistle blowing is protected.
Just because it was very embarrassing to government agencies this was not.
All whistle blowing should be fully protected in law.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Some whistle blowing is protected.
Just because it was very embarrassing to government agencies this was not.
All whistle blowing should be fully protected in law.

But that would mean America would have to be a democracy and governments would have to make massive reductions in power. Now if you keep talking buddy you are going to sound like you are asking for human rights. Can't have that now can we !

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The fallaciousness of your argument is appalling. I have spent years of my youth studying philosophy only to see arguments that this being used by somebody in the sciences.

Philosophy is not neuropsychology, psychology, anthropology, sociology, or biology. Philosophy does not examine brains under a microscope, nor does it gather evidence to prove an approach effective.

You said earlier that if gender dysphoria was a mental illness which you seem to be acknowledging since you are asserting there is "treatment," then why would you set such a ludicrous and unscientific standard to disacknowledge it?

You need to reread what I said. You try to flaunt understandings of philosophy and Nietzsche, but you can't even get my position correct and you insist it's "unscientific" despite the fact my position is very firmly based on scientific research.

Gender dysphoria is not a psychological illness.
We can change you into whatever sex need be.
Henceforth it is a natural thing.

Gender dysphoria causes disturbances and impairments in one's quality of life. This is caused due their identity not matching their body, something that appears very much so to be rooted in physiology, not psychology. The psychology in due to things like depression and suicidal thoughts from living as they were assigned rather than as they are.
We allow them to live as they are, and they are better off. And this isn't confined to modern culture, but is applicable across time and culture. Sometimes, in some cultures, those we would call transgender even hold exclusive, very special, and highly privileged positions. To some it is even considered great fortune to be married to one.
Given we have evidence of the existence of and acceptance of transgender people even from our earliest days, and we know a number of other species can change their sex, there is no reason to assume gender dysphoria is unnatural.
I can also say that many, many, many psychologists and therapists who specialize in studies related to sex, sexuality, and gender do not view gender dysphoria itself as a disorder, but rather that disorders come from the depression, anxiety, and other impairments that come from a highly unauthentic life that has no meaning, value, or substance beyond just going through with the motions that society expects of them.

or anybody else should be forced to acknowledge that said person as a man or woman.

Like it or not, people are forced to make various accommodations for different people. Handicap accommodations, ADA, service dogs. But, the big difference between those and gender dysphoria is, especially the earlier they are allowed to transition, those impairments are greatly reduced and in many instances come to an end when a transition is pursued.

 

[esmith]

But the sentence wasn't consistent with legal precedent, it was a considerably longer sentence than is usually given for a crime of this nature. Championing a miscarriage of justice doesn't make you a legal "purist".

Is everyone here just confused about the difference between a commutation of sentence and a pardon? Manning hasn't been pardoned. She broke a law, was charged, and served several years in prison, none of which has changed. The law will still consider her a felon and everything that comes with that label. The only thing which has changed is length of sentence.

More:
Frequently Asked Questions Concerning Executive Clemency | PARDON | Department of Justice

Manning was tried and convicted by a Military Court Martial not a civilian court. He was sentenced to 35 years with the possibility of parole after serving 1/3 of the sentence. There is no "normal" sentence has far as the military is concerned. As far as I'm concerned Manning should have been found guilty of giving aid to the enemy Article 104 of the UCMJ and the punishment is death or as a court martial may direct.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Manning was tried and convicted by a Military Court Martial not a civilian court. He was sentenced to 35 years with the possibility of parole after serving 1/3 of the sentence. There is no "normal" sentence has far as the military is concerned. As far as I'm concerned Manning should have been found guilty of giving aid to the enemy Article 104 of the UCMJ and the punishment is death or as a court martial may direct.

She didn't give information to any enemy though. It's literally no different than when people insisted the Pentagon Papers was a huge major threat to national security, but the controversy was were the issue began and ended. What she leaked, to a Middle Eastern Jihadist there isn't much to be learned as they live it. But, for the American people, such a leak was very damning against public support for the operations in Afghanistan and Iraq, a mark of shame on our image of our "infaliable" troops, and an embarrassment for the US government.