Obama Lost a Chance at My Vote Today...

[jonny]

The outrage you feel at the idea that those soldiers died for nothing should be aimed at the man who made that happen, not at the man who has the courage to finally say it out loud.

So much courage that he immediately started back-peddling as soon as he saw how people reacted. If he really is couragous, he would stand by and defend his statement. He's not a hero. He's a politician.

 

[jonny]

Is it not abundantly clear to you that you HAVE LOST THE WAR? You do not have enough troops on the ground to stop the insurgents, there are more of them every day, ordinary folk who want you and your invading army OUT of their country.

You have lost and no amount of either Republicans or Democrats can give you that victory.

No, we haven't lost the war and I honestly don't care about your opinion on the matter. You don't have a vote.

 

[Mathematician]

Just a quick question to all the defenders of Obama... Think long and hard about this.

Are you defending Obama because you actually agree with him, or because you dislike President Bush? President Bush isn't running for president again, so I find it pointless to attack him in a presidential campaign. I really think that you democrats need to move on. Now, President Bush is leaving office. IF Obama is elected (unlikely) and becomes the Commander in Chief, how on earth is he supposed to lead this war? He is distancing him from the troops who he would be leading. How is he supposed to motivate them and help us win this war? Or do you want to lose this war?

I'm not a Democrat.

I'm sorry if I sound rude, but I see this as another case where people are mistaking support for the WAR for support for the TROOPS.

Also, I think you're missing the point of voting for Obama. He was never the candidate to elect if you want to continue Iraq War. He's the candidate to vote for to end it.

Obama has a defeatest attitude regarding the war. This isn't a quality I look for in a president. I'd rather have a leader who realizes that we are in a bad situation and has the skills and leadership necessary to lead us out of it. Obama demonstrated that he does not have these leadership qualities.

And which candidate exactly has the skills to lead us out in victory? :sarcastic Unless we seriously commit hundreds of thousands of more troops, there is no way for the American military to quell the problem. Military experts agree this is an issue for Iraqis to resolve, not Americans.

Claiming that the loss of a soldier's life is a waste because he is fighting willingly for something he is committed to is a shot at our troops.

No, it's not.

If I said "it's a waist of a good life" does that have a negative connotation about me (the speaker) or death itself?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I still believe that the world is better off without Saddam than it was with Saddam and I believe that in the long run the Iraqi people will be better off without him also.

I'll admit, Iraq is much better without him. But Bush has seemed to forget all about the man responsible for 9/11. Instead of seeking justice for what happened to the nation he "rules," he abandoned the idea, and went to Iraq for reasons we may never know. Bush should never have went to Iraq in the manner he did. It was nothing but mindless bullying in the beginning, and with the mess Bush made of it, it's going to turn into a long term outpost.

 

[MaddLlama]

So much courage that he immediately started back-peddling as soon as he saw how people reacted. If he really is couragous, he would stand by and defend his statement. He's not a hero. He's a politician.

Has there ever been a politician who wasn't concerned about what people think of him? Especially with all of the reports about him on fox news, it's better for him to be cautious.

To say "He's a politician, not a hero" is expecting too much from any politician.

 

[Ody]

Claiming the soldiers lives lost in Iraq were wasted...pathetic. Critisize the president or critisize how the war has been run, but to claim that the lives of those who fought were lives wasted is the most pathetic opinion I've ever heard stated by a politician.

All deaths that are met with military incompetence by one's leadership are a waste.

 

[MaddLlama]

jonny, if you're so concerned that someone would think of the death of many of the troops as a meaningless deaths, can you explain to us what each of those deaths means? What exactly have we accomplished that the President could tell the families of dead soliders that thier child's death wasn't a waste?

If you don't have an answer for that, then maybe you should stop and consider why Obama's comment made you so angry. Was it just a knee-jerk reaction?

 

[jonny]

Has there ever been a politician who wasn't concerned about what people think of him? Especially with all of the reports about him on fox news, it's better for him to be cautious.

To say "He's a politician, not a hero" is expecting too much from any politician.

I wasn't the one who called him courageous. It doesn't take courage to state a position in front of people who support your positions. It does take courage to defend that position against people who don't support you. Obama took the position, and then backed away from it when he was called out on it. That isn't courage. That's pandering.

 

[Scuba Pete]

President Bush isn't running for president again, so I find it pointless to attack him in a presidential campaign.

We learned how to do this from the Republicans in the last two elections. Hell, they are STILL whining about Clinton.

 

[jonny]

jonny, if you're so concerned that someone would think of the death of many of the troops as a meaningless deaths, can you explain to us what each of those deaths means? What exactly have we accomplished that the President could tell the families of dead soliders that thier child's death wasn't a waste?

If you don't have an answer for that, then maybe you should stop and consider why Obama's comment made you so angry. Was it just a knee-jerk reaction?

What those death's will mean if we are successful in Iraq:

• A free people who will be able to take control of their destiny in peace.
• The death of a ruthless dictator.
• A country and its people formerly isolated from the world being able to sit at the same table and work with other countries instead of against other countries.
• A former enemy of the United States and the West becoming an ally.
• A more peaceful Middle East.

If we fail in Iraq by continuing with an ineffective strategy or pulling out without winning the war (Obama's Strategy), the lives of the soldiers won't necessarily have been wasted, but we will not have honored their sacrifice because we didn't complete the job. We need a president who is intelligent enough to make the right decisions and strong enough to lead our country to victory - even if it wasn't a war he or she started or agreed with. I believe that the consequences of not finishing the job will be greater than the consequences of completing what was started.

I don't believe this war is unsalvagable. Obama does. Obama isn't up to the challenge of dealing with it; therefore, I cannot and will not consider giving him my vote for President. I don't want to elect a leader who wants to run away from the biggest issues in the election and then blame them on someone else. That's the easy way out. One of my favorite quotes is "Successful people are successful because they do the things that others didn't or wouldn't do." I want a president who will be successful - especially on the issue of bringing our troops home AND honoring them by finishing the fight.

 

[jonny]

We learned how to do this from the Republicans in the last two elections. Hell, they are STILL whining about Clinton.

Yeah, it's pretty pathetic. I wish that the democrats had tried to emulate some of the republicans better qualities instead of taking on their worst ones.

 

[Scuba Pete]

The Republican Party has shown itself to be quite ready to twist facts and statements to smear their opponents. Heck, Jonny is just following in the steps of the Swift Boat Veterans with this diatribe. They have trained you weill Jonny!

It's obvious that the Haliburton War is an economic one. Shrub's buds needed some funds and Shrub was looking bad for not catching Osama (our REAL enemy) and so he launches our first WAR OF AGGRESSION since we became a country. We have SACRIFICED so many of our sons and daughters in the name of Profits for Haliburton that my heart is sick.

Shrub is a cancer in our society. He should be impeached for deceiving us and for sentencing our sons and daughters to death in this most unholy war.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Yeah, it's pretty pathetic. I wish that the democrats had tried to emulate some of the republicans better qualities instead of taking on their worst ones.

You mean like hate, bitterness, revenge and the Swift Boat Veterans? Thanks anyway, but I would rather we lose and keep our souls.

 

[jonny]

I'll admit, Iraq is much better without him. But Bush has seemed to forget all about the man responsible for 9/11. Instead of seeking justice for what happened to the nation he "rules," he abandoned the idea, and went to Iraq for reasons we may never know. Bush should never have went to Iraq in the manner he did. It was nothing but mindless bullying in the beginning, and with the mess Bush made of it, it's going to turn into a long term outpost.

I agree with you on this one. Has Obama made any statements on what he plans to do about Osama? If he doesn't want to finish up this military conflict, I can't see him putting in much effort to get Osama either.

As for the long-term outpost, I have never understood what's wrong with that. We still have military bases in Germany that were established after WWII and I think that, for the most part, the have helped us build a good relationship with the country and its government. I lived in cities where there were American military bases and the Germans there loved Americans (although they didn't love everything about our culture, but that's to be expected). If the Iraqi government invites us to have a permanent military base in their country to help keep the area stable, would that be such a bad thing? We have a base in Turkey and Saudi Arabia. Why not Iraq?

 

[jonny]

You mean like hate, bitterness, revenge and the Swift Boat Veterans? Thanks anyway, but I would rather we lose and keep our souls.

Who needs the Swift Boat Veterans when you have the DNC putting out the press releases on its own. I do a lot of research on Google news and I kept seeing press releases directly from the DNC attacking republican presidential candidates. I was curious to see if the GOP did the same and couldn't find any similar press releases on its website. I'm not saying they don't, but I couldn'd find any.

Anyway, dirty politics are dirty politics and both parties disgust me. I'd love to see a candidate rise above all the mud slinging, but I doubt it will happen.

 

[jonny]

The Republican Party has shown itself to be quite ready to twist facts and statements to smear their opponents. Heck, Jonny is just following in the steps of the Swift Boat Veterans with this diatribe. They have trained you weill Jonny!

It's obvious that the Haliburton War is an economic one. Shrub's buds needed some funds and Shrub was looking bad for not catching Osama (our REAL enemy) and so he launches our first WAR OF AGGRESSION since we became a country. We have SACRIFICED so many of our sons and daughters in the name of Profits for Haliburton that my heart is sick.

Shrub is a cancer in our society. He should be impeached for deceiving us and for sentencing our sons and daughters to death in this most unholy war.

I'm not a republican. I'm not affiliated with a party and refuse to affiliate with a party. Therefore, I won't be voting in any primary elections. It's a decision I made and one I have to live with. As for the Swift Boat Veterans, I don't support them either. I prefer to think for myself and try to see things from both sides of the issue and look at what is good for the country overall - not any particular party politically.

Please get over Bush and move on. This election isn't about our past. It is about our future. Bush,thankfully, won't be a part of that.

 

[standing_alone]

If we fail in Iraq by continuing with an ineffective strategy or pulling out without winning the war (Obama's Strategy), the lives of the soldiers won't necessarily have been wasted, but we will not have honored their sacrifice because we didn't complete the job.

But when does it get to the point that enough is enough? We're fighting what is most likely a losing battle; We certainly aren't running out of insurgents to kill. At what point are any further soldier's deaths too many to try to give honor to the deaths of the other soldiers before them? Because that is in effect what you are saying - to keep committing troops to fight (and die) in an attempt to ensure that those soldiers committed before them did not die "a meaningless death." It just seems to be a cycle of sorts...

 

[Scuba Pete]

This election isn't about our past. It is about our future.

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

 

[jonny]

But when does it get to the point that enough is enough? We're fighting what is most likely a losing battle; We certainly aren't running out of insurgents to kill. At what point are any further soldier's deaths too many to try to give honor to the deaths of the other soldiers before them? Because that is in effect what you are saying - to keep committing troops to fight (and die) in an attempt to ensure that those soldiers committed before them did not die "a meaningless death." It just seems to be a cycle of sorts...

I don't know when enough is enough. I think that the strategy in Iraq needs to be completely rethought. If Americans are doing things that Iraqis could do themselves (such as build infrastructure, etc), the Americans should be pulled out and the Iraqis should be given the opportunity to build up their country. There is no pride in having us do what they could do themselves. That is how I would start bringing the troops home. Honestly, I haven't heard a great assessment on what the troops are doing over there and everyone who I've talked to who was over there seemed to act like a lot of time was being wasted. I hope )( that getting rid of Rumsfeld was the first step to getting things going in the right direction.

 

[standing_alone]

I don't know when enough is enough. I think that the strategy in Iraq needs to be completely rethought. If Americans are doing things that Iraqis could do themselves (such as build infrastructure, etc), the Americans should be pulled out and the Iraqis should be given the opportunity to build up their country. There is no pride in having us do what they could do themselves. That is how I would start bringing the troops home. Honestly, I haven't heard a great assessment on what the troops are doing over there and everyone who I've talked to who was over there seemed to act like a lot of time was being wasted. I hope )( that getting rid of Rumsfeld was the first step to getting things going in the right direction.

Thanks for an honest answer. I tend to agree with you on how to work on getting our troops out in as most sensible a manner as possible. One of the problems (so I heard from some Marines who served over in Iraq, which of course wasn't a representative sample of the entire military) is that, while the invasion was successful, the occupation failed because they weren't necessarily trained in everything they had to do "rebuilding-wise." Certainly in those areas that are more stable, it wouldn't be a bad idea to start shifting responsibility over to the Iraqis, while keeping our presence in those areas that are more chaotic. But I suppose this is off-topic, so...