Obama Lost a Chance at My Vote Today...

[Bishka]

I have over 15 years of research on the LDS friend, I WAS an LDS elder. The unwillingness of the church to deal with politicians of the right, whom a great majority of the GAs uncritically support, was just one of the reasons I left.

And this makes you an expert?

You left for the wrong reasons. The LDS Church is not, and has never claimed to be perfect, none of it's members should at all claim to be perfect. If you remember the 12th article of faith, it states, "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."

I would like you to show where any of the General Authorities or First Presidency blantanly 'support' politicians. The Church RARELY takes a stance on politicians or political issues, and that's because of a little something called 'free will'.

Besides, taking a swat at someones religious background shouldn't matter in this thread. This is about Obama, not the LDS Church or any of their members views.

 

[Kay]

I think some folks would be surprised just how many U.S. soldiers privately feel the same sentiments that Obama expressed.

I live and work a stone's throw away from Hill Airforce Base in Utah. I hear comments (such as Obama made) regularly from the soldiers that shop at the store I manage.

 

[des]

I live and work a stone's throw away from Hill Airforce Base in Utah. I hear comments (such as Obama made) regularly from the soldiers that shop at the store I manage.

I think that perhaps Obama's comments weren't, what would you say, "politically proper" perhaps. But they were honest. IF you think that the war in Iraq was a mistake, then it would follow that you feel that lives were lost in vain (for nothing, wasted on war, etc.). If you are of the minority that feels it was not a mistake then, you won't feel that way. If you are somewhere where you feel that the war wasn't a mistake but was handled poorly, then it would still follow that you would feel that the lives were lost in vain. I am imagining that is why McCain is so upset.

Funny thing, but years ago this wasn't so controversial. The tv show MASH, which I love, and is still carried on syndication is about the Korean war ostensibly (but more of a statement re: the Vietnam war that was going on at the time). It was very popular at the time. In it are frequent comments of the waste of war; the senseless slaughter of war; etc. Nothing like this would ever fly these days. My dad, who was in WWII, which you could at least argue was a just war, also liked it and by all accounts didn't find it controversial.

Although Obama's comment doesn't disqualify him, on my account. It does indicate to me that he may say the wrong things too often, unless he is "overhandled" which is worse.


--des

 

[greatcalgarian]

"We ended up launching a war that should have never been authorized, and should have never been waged, and on which we've now spent $400 billion, and have seen over 3,000 lives of the bravest young Americans wasted."

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007702120332

I have doubts about Obama initially. Now I see him as a very honest, right to the point person, brave to admit that those lives, those young Americans deaths and sacrifices are UNNECESSARY (perhaps wrong choice of word 'wasted', but very powerful to convey what every American has in their heart, but will not admit it, or else will be accused of being unpartriotic or being pathetic like some posters kept harping on). Those who got **** off by his above statement never really pay attention to the word 'BRAVEST', hence is taking his stand out of context. Very poor quality of understanding what Obama is saying.:yes: :yes:

Perhaps those now claim not wanting to vote for Obama has already made up their mind not to vote for him already, and now simply pick on the word 'wasted' and interpreted it out of context, and try to persuade other people not to vote for him.:tsk:

 

[kiwimac]

And this makes you an expert?

You left for the wrong reasons. The LDS Church is not, and has never claimed to be perfect, none of it's members should at all claim to be perfect. If you remember the 12th article of faith, it states, "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."

I would like you to show where any of the General Authorities or First Presidency blantanly 'support' politicians. The Church RARELY takes a stance on politicians or political issues, and that's because of a little something called 'free will'.

Besides, taking a swat at someones religious background shouldn't matter in this thread. This is about Obama, not the LDS Church or any of their members views.

Well that and the doctoral degrees in Comparative religion and Theology.

 

[NoahideHiker]

Obama is no friend to the average citizen, of whom he counts himself one of. I vote for the person who will uphold our freedoms the most. He ain't it. Especially when it comes to gun control. His stance on gun control:

• Ban semi-automatics, and impose more restrictions on other types of firearms possession;
• Ban the sale or transfer of all forms of semi-automatic weapons;
• Increase state restrictions on the purchase and possession of firearms;
• Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.

I believe in keeping guns out of our inner cities, and that our leaders must say so in the face of the gun manfuacturer’s lobby. But I also believe that when a gangbanger shoots indiscriminately into a crowd because he feels someone disrespected him, we have a problem of morality. Not only do we need to punish that man for his crime, but we need to acknowledge that there’s a hole in his heart, one that government programs alone may not be able to repair.” Source: The Audacity of Hope, by Barack Obama, p.215 Oct 1, 2006

Who needs to be able to protect themselves more? John Q. Suburb or John Q. Innercity? Gun control is racist. Plain and simle.

 

[darkpenguin]

Claiming the soldiers lives lost in Iraq were wasted...pathetic. Critisize the president or critisize how the war has been run, but to claim that the lives of those who fought were lives wasted is the most pathetic opinion I've ever heard stated by a politician.

I went into this campaign with an open mind. This is enough for me to know that I DO NOT want this man to be the Commander in Chief of our military. I already felt like he didn't have the experience. Now I know he doesn't have the intelligence or leadership necessary for the position.

Sorry but your wrong, all the lives of the men and women who have died for this war on terror are wasted!
The wars are pointless, they might aswell shoot them before they go instead of prolonging the agony by sending them to death row, sorry Iraq/Afghanistan.
No good has come from these wars there for they are as pointless as the lives lost in them!

 

[NoahideHiker]

Dying so someone else can be free. What a silly notion devoid of valor and a waste. [/sarcasm]

 

[Bishka]

Well that and the doctoral degrees in Comparative religion and Theology.

I forgot this makes someone an expert on a religion they are not longer a part of. :sarcastic

 

[PureX]

I forgot this makes someone an expert on a religion they are not longer a part of. :sarcastic

It kinda does make one an expert on religions, though, whether they're religious or not. Do you have any idea of how difficult it is to get a doctorate in comparative religions? To pretend that one can do so without being an expert is pretty insulting. If you had to study, in depth, all that is required to get a doctorate, you wouldn't be so cavalier. Just sit and think a minute about all that a person has to have studied to get a doctorate. It takes years.

Sorry, but I'm tired of people dismissing the value of high education and intellect just because they don't like something they hear, or don't want to agree with it. If you disagree, fine, but respect the time and effort (and money) that other people have put into getting a higher education. They deserve that much.

 

[kiwimac]

Becky,

Will you or nil you, the Church is associated in folk's minds with the support of both a conservative and a right-wing political agenda. LDS GA's will not accept LGBT folk, only back-tracked on non-ordination of Blacks in the late 70s (a return, BTW, to the early church policy of ordaining Negroes.), nor will they accept that women are as capable of being Priesthood holders as any man.

This is not about bad-mouthing the LDS church because I don't know better, this is based on years of study, thought and practise. It is not an empty attack on "those darn mormons," but a discussion brought about because the church could be more than it has been, could, in fact, be more like Jesus who willingly fellowshipped with prostitutes, sinners and the like.

Kiwimac

 

[Flappycat]

Claiming the soldiers lives lost in Iraq were wasted...pathetic. Critisize the president or critisize how the war has been run, but to claim that the lives of those who fought were lives wasted is the most pathetic opinion I've ever heard stated by a politician.

It hurts to hear the truth, doesn't it?

I went into this campaign with an open mind.

Too bad. You should have gone into it with a strong set of principles firmly in mind.

Now I know he doesn't have the intelligence or leadership necessary for the position.

Your assessment is clouded by your inability to face the truth when it stares at you. Why, Jonny? Has it been hunting you for long?

Find something to believe in before someone gets hurt.

 

[almifkhar]

johny

their lives were wasted because they went into wars based on many a lie. to die for a lie is a waste.

 

[jonny]

Ban semi-automatics, and impose more restrictions on other types of firearms possession;

Is he crazy? If that's really his stance on gun control it will be a cold day in hell before I vote for him. This is even more outrageous than his comments on Iraq.

Require manufacturers to provide child-safety locks with firearms.

Why waste time on this? Every gun I've ever purchased has already come with child-safety locks (including the one I purchased last night ), you can pick them up for free on many gun counters, and if you want you can pick them up for free at just about any police station.

 

[jonny]

It kinda does make one an expert on religions, though, whether they're religious or not. Do you have any idea of how difficult it is to get a doctorate in comparative religions? To pretend that one can do so without being an expert is pretty insulting. If you had to study, in depth, all that is required to get a doctorate, you wouldn't be so cavalier. Just sit and think a minute about all that a person has to have studied to get a doctorate. It takes years.

Sorry, but I'm tired of people dismissing the value of high education and intellect just because they don't like something they hear, or don't want to agree with it. If you disagree, fine, but respect the time and effort (and money) that other people have put into getting a higher education. They deserve that much.

His statements make it clear that he doesn't understand the churches political stance. He had a bad experience, which is unfortunate.

Anyway, this, again, has nothing to do with this topic...

Moderator please?

 

[CaptainXeroid]

*** MOD POST ***
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Since my first post #78 was ignored, this thread is closed pending moderator review.
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