Koldo
Outstanding Member
What about the ones that didn't protect your country?
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Obamacare succeeding
- Thread starter Wirey
- Start date
What about the ones that didn't protect your country?
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
And that is probably the biggest problem with it. It's not necessarily affordable and those who can't afford it have to pay a penalty, creating a burden for them either way.
Don't get me wrong, it's way better than what we had before. Far from flawless, though.
And what of firefighters, police, nurses, EMTs, dispatchers, public defenders, teachers and other individuals who try to ensure things, you know, get done?
And then, what of the children of these people? I don't know how well aware you are of a cop's salary, but it's somewhere between "poverty" and "technically not poverty". The others aren't much better.
OR
We could have a system where everyone chips in and gets the same access, with those above a certain income paying incrementally more depending on just how wealthy they are. As in, people like Bill Gates & Warren Buffet would be paying quite a bit, but due to their incredible success, would not even be a pittance to them.
No system is flawless, and this one has very serious issues, but our foot is finally in the door. Whatever its faults & deficiencies, they can be ironed out. The single greatest obstacle, the hardest part, is over with. And that was getting it put in in the first place.
CMike
Well-Known Member
It's not free.
Marisa
Well-Known Member
That's why I put the word in quotes.
Mycroft
Ministry of Serendipity
Well the NHS is taken out of Tax, too. But our country is definitely better for it than without it. This is what taxes are for.
dust1n
Zindīq
Obamacare sucks, but since detractors basically prefer the option of deregulated insurance, I would never actually be able to get insurance. So, by necessity, I'd have to choose the really ****ty, corporate-loving, plan, over no plan at all.
Of course, I don't think it is free. But either way, I'm racking up 30k hospital bills because I can't get realistic access to healthcare, and the hospital basically absorbs this cost, which just increases the prices for everyone else, which is reflected health insurance rates. If people were cut off from emergency rooms, there would probably be riots.
So. Whatever, I guess.
Of course, I don't think it is free. But either way, I'm racking up 30k hospital bills because I can't get realistic access to healthcare, and the hospital basically absorbs this cost, which just increases the prices for everyone else, which is reflected health insurance rates. If people were cut off from emergency rooms, there would probably be riots.
So. Whatever, I guess.
xkatz
Well-Known Member
Its not free if you can't afford it ;^)
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Sad part of it all is I'm not really against a universal healthcare system. Just the individual mandate that takes food off the table from millions of people that simply cannot afford the extra expense on top of everything else. Especially in this economy where the middle class is barely getting enough as it already is without this burden straining further the shoestring budgets of many people.
True and it's laughably far from being a success by any stretch of the imagination.
There is a real reason liberals are yelling the praises regarding access to healthcare for everyone. from the rooftops and at the same time skirting or avoiding altogether what actually is working.
The real answer is not much.
WORLD Mobile | Study: Families with Obamacare still can’t afford the deductibles | March 23, 2015
Sultan Of Swing
Well-Known Member
Yes, I also think the NHS is a great thing. My point is, Obamacare isn't taken out of tax, it's a separate health insurance scheme.
My best guess is that it has to do with a mythical perception of "effort being rewarded as deserved". Many Americans are extremely individualistic, to the point of seeing the government as a borderline illegitimate institution.
Their myth of the "self-made man" is often taken too literally for their own good, despite ample factual evidence for what its proper limits should be.
For such a mindset, it is often quite bothersome that "their" dollars are being used to care for the health of people who "have not earned it".
To be fair, it is a difficult crucible. At its most basic, it involves difficult decisions between being deeply callous or instead renouncing a sizeable chunk of one's most meaningful dreams for the good of people that may not even have basic respect towards you.
Marisa
Well-Known Member
People pressing the tax issue: we've (us residents) always been paying for health care through taxes. Own a house? Your property taxes are used to fund schools and local hospitals, emergency rooms being where indigent patients get routine health care at heft costs to you (even if you rent in an area which has a rental tax, you're doing the same thing). Buy goods and services? The sales tax you pay does the same thing. Pay federal or state income tax? That's the third way you pay for insurance through taxes. So I'm not certain why this issue continues to be pressed, though I have an inkling. Those of us who favor a single payer (universal) health care system are not unaware that it's paid for through taxation.
Marisa
Well-Known Member
I agree, it's an overselling of the "American Dream" and it has some disturbing ramifications. I often hear the phrase "pick yourself up by the bootstraps" by folks seemingly intent upon making sure no one has access to boots to begin with. I think we can have a system which allows for some form of capitalism, but it seems clear to me that relying on capitalism alone is not beneficial for individuals. Capitalism, IMO, requires a strong government and sensible regulations which prevent the canibalization of people for the sake of profit.
I'm not seeing what's so wonderful about Obamacare, and I find it amusing that people that don't actually have to deal with it seem to see it so favorably.
Among many things to not like about Obamacare, I think there is a level of justifiable anger to be someone who is being penalized for not being able to afford coverage, and pay a penalty... so other people may have free, or subsidized coverage, and see people talk about you like you're some kind of cold-hearted, greedy sob for not liking it.
Among many things to not like about Obamacare, I think there is a level of justifiable anger to be someone who is being penalized for not being able to afford coverage, and pay a penalty... so other people may have free, or subsidized coverage, and see people talk about you like you're some kind of cold-hearted, greedy sob for not liking it.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I have had mixed feelings about it, but I do believe it's better than doing nothing and leaving tens of millions of Americans without even basic coverage. If the Republicans had embraced its development and then also worked with the Democrats to fix some holes, it could have been made much better.
As to the issue of there being a "penalty", this needs to be put into the context of millions of people each year who didn't have insurance flooding to emergency rooms, thus jacking up hospital costs, and I think we well know who eventually pays for that in the long run. Medical inflation has dropped sharply from 9% per year prior to the implementation of the ACA, and the new CBO estimate is that it may even drop more.
Buttercup
Veteran Member
This is a handy website with a health care cost calculator. I've personally known two people who have gotten insurance through this website and are happy with their coverage. There's also a link to get dental coverage as well.
I asked for a quote for a family of four who live in Florida, both non smoking and both 40 years old with a combined income of $30,000 a year. The kids are either covered for free or at a greatly reduced rate. I'm pretty sure that most families could afford this. You may have to wait a moment for the info to load.
Getinsured.com
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
The American system let me go with a torn cartilage and ligament in my left knee, and is set up so that it was legal, even after the ACA was passed, to not approve my claim for surgery (the surgeon I needed was out of network for them). The Canadian system would have taken care of me without making me wait the weekend for my first MRI because, in the words of my doctor, "your insurance isn't very good."