Objections against Buddhism

[Unveiled Artist]

Sitting is boring and a lot of hard work.

Got better things to do......

Haha. Thats the point.

 

[Vinayaka]

I have often wondered why Buddhism is not more popular than it is currently. I personally have found Buddhism to be a great help in thought and in life, as well as reasonably easy to grasp (unlike Hinduism and humanistic materialism) and generally devoid of serious logical or ethical problems (unlike Abrahamic religions).

So, for those you who have heard or read a bit about Buddhism. what were the main objections that caused you to not pursue it or give up on it or feel uninterested in it?

Definitely my second choice. I consider the Buddhists my brothers and sisters. The ritual and personal draw of Hinduism keeps me here in it.

 

[james bond]

I attend Buddhist services sometimes and it works for me. They do not discriminate against Christians. In fact, there are members who believe in God although I'm not sure if they're Christian. For example, one lady spoke right up when the Rinban asked which came first the chicken or the egg? I like the chanting, philosophy, and incense and meditation aspect. It also talks about happiness being the purpose of life. It's a practice like yoga.

 

[sayak83]

Sure. In a throwoff description, I prefer to drum, sing and dance around a fire, to honor my ancestors and the spirits that live around me, and to study and try to understand the wondrous world around me. Thus, things like Shinto, Native American mythologies, Aboriginal mythologies, and folk religions resonate with me in ways that the others do not. Over the years, I've tried to force it, especially with Christianity, and with atheism/agnosticism, and I've checked into some of the others...but they don't light me up the way my 'primitive' animistic practices do.

Indeed, this was the religion of the RigVeda-s and most human cultures in the early times. And it is perfectly "true" in its own place. But here is the thing, the central concern that drove Buddha, the rishi-s of the Upanisads and Mahavira (Jains) and many others to look for more. Human beings were no longer what they were thousands of years ago. Regardless of the good or the bad of it, by the power of consciousness and intelligence we have become daeva-s (gods) in our own right, with immense collective power over the fate of this world ...a power that they (rightly it turns out) feared we would wield often but with little insight, responsibility or wisdom....thus causing to us and to every being of this world great harm and suffering. The dharma of powerful beings require far greater thought and reflection than the dharma of beings who yet remain subject to the rhythms of nature, and the fact that we were on the way to transcend the restrictions that nature imposes on all its creatures on earth (for good or ill) had become clear enough even then. This is even more true today. How can our highly complex technological civilization of 7 billion souls with immense capacities of destruction ( the atomic bombs) or creation (colonizing Mars) by guided by the religion of the ancestral spirits? They will no longer suffice by their own self. More is needed. That is the sense I get when I read the work of Buddha, Mahavira, Confucious or Socrates/Plato/Aristotle.

However, none of this implies that the celebration of god/goddesses/spirits/ancestors should not be a central aspect of spiritual expression. Here is fire and smoke dance with drums that is an important part of the worship of goddess Durga in my own hometown in Kolkata (and in other parts of India and the world).

 

[sayak83]

Definitely my second choice. I consider the Buddhists my brothers and sisters. The ritual and personal draw of Hinduism keeps me here in it.

Obviously....

 

[sayak83]

Sitting is boring and a lot of hard work.

Got better things to do......

Walking Meditation.

Do it next time you go on a morning/evening walk or on a hike..instead of taking selfies

 

[Kartari]

Hi Brian,

I had a lot against Buddhism since many Buddhists are atheistic, until I learned that Buddhism permits a belief in God. Not all Buddhists are atheists. That softened my heart.

Now I just wished there was a Buddhist canon of scripture for my personal library. If you know a set of books I could buy, let me know. I am ignorant of what books I need to be educated in Buddhism. I am of ultra-orthodox Judaism and would be interested to learn Buddhism. They are not incompatible. As long as they permit my belief in one God.

Just wanted to point out that western Buddhists (Americans, Europeans, etc) are actually unique among Buddhists in gravitating towards atheism and agnosticism. Traditionally, and historically, polytheism has been the norm for Buddhists throughout Asia.

Monotheism itself is not incompatible with Buddhism. Theism is typically an aside to the religion proper anyway. Furthermore, in my experience, Buddhist communities tend to be rather tolerant of beliefs. So I'd say you're fine exploring Buddhism in whichever form you feel drawn towards.

 

[Kartari]

Hi Brian & buddhist,

Here are the four books composing the core canon of early Buddhism relevant to laypeople - the Digha Nikaya, the Samyutta Nikaya, the Anguttara Nikaya, and the Majjhima Nikaya, available from Pali Canon: Books | Wisdom Publications

Well, as I cannot show contempt prior to investigation, I will make an attempt to investigate by purchasing and reading the basic canon of Buddhist literature. And until I do so, I bow out of this thread respectfully.

While I too love the Pali Canon, I don't believe most newcomers to Buddhism should start out reading it. The Canon is truly enormous, far larger than the Torah or the Bible. I fear that without an already acquired strong motivation, one might easily get turned off from the mere sight of the books' sizes, lol.

I suggest starting with the Dhammapada, Brian, if you're interested in starting your investigation with early Buddhism (i.e. Theravada Buddhism). Regarded as the Buddha's own recorded teachings, it's a short yet very rewarding read. If Zen is of interest to you (with its more practical emphasis on meditation and mindfulness), I suggest Dogen's Fukan Zazengi. Both these texts contain references that will require additional research to fully get, though you do get their points quite well in both cases anyway. Other traditions have worthy reads as well, but these are among the shortest primers to Buddhism.

Edit: Dogen's Shobogenzo Zuimonki would actually provide even more comprehensive insight into Zen, if interested.

 

[buddhist]

Hi Brian & buddhist,

While I too love the Pali Canon, I don't believe most newcomers to Buddhism should start out reading it. The Canon is truly enormous, far larger than the Torah or the Bible. I fear that without an already acquired strong motivation, one might easily get turned off from the mere sight of the books' sizes, lol.

I suggest starting with the Dhammapada, Brian, if you're interested in starting your investigation with early Buddhism (i.e. Theravada Buddhism). Regarded as the Buddha's own recorded teachings, it's a short yet very rewarding read....

I tend to agree with you about the Pali Canon. For newcomers, I also suggest the anthology "In the Buddha's Words" after the Dhammapada, and then perhaps the full Pali Canon.
.

 

[George-ananda]

I have often wondered why Buddhism is not more popular than it is currently. I personally have found Buddhism to be a great help in thought and in life, as well as reasonably easy to grasp (unlike Hinduism and humanistic materialism) and generally devoid of serious logical or ethical problems (unlike Abrahamic religions).

So, for those you who have heard or read a bit about Buddhism. what were the main objections that caused you to not pursue it or give up on it or feel uninterested in it?

I accept Buddhism as a practice but prefer Advaita Hinduism because Buddhism discourages metaphysical speculation. I have an inquiring mind and must inquire about metaphysics.

 

[sayak83]

I accept Buddhism as a practice but prefer Advaita Hinduism because Buddhism discourages metaphysical speculation. I have an inquiring mind and must inquire about metaphysics.

While Buddha may have discouraged metaphysical speculation, Buddhism has lots of metaphysics in it. (LINK). The systematic investigation of the nature of things really took off from about 3rd century BCE and the Abhidhamma texts already show lots of metaphysical exploration that is continued throughout.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Couldnt have said it better.

Havent danced with the spirits in over a year due to medical priorities. Need to catch up?

I don't think you can, or even need to, "catch up." That's such a Western thing. You are where you are, you've done what you did, now you do what you can, even if it's just tapping your feet and swaying a little...

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

To me Budhism is like Christianity. They both pray towards a man that use to walk on this earth...

Hmm. At least neither Buddhism nor Christianity has killed people for depictions of their man that used to walk the earth.

----------------------------------------

To Buddhism, @sayak83, I've never had inclination or attraction to any Eastern philosophy or religion. I don't really object to them, I just have nothing in common with them enough to devote my life to them.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

Indeed, this was the religion of the RigVeda-s and most human cultures in the early times. And it is perfectly "true" in its own place. But here is the thing, the central concern that drove Buddha, the rishi-s of the Upanisads and Mahavira (Jains) and many others to look for more. Human beings were no longer what they were thousands of years ago. Regardless of the good or the bad of it, by the power of consciousness and intelligence we have become daeva-s (gods) in our own right, with immense collective power over the fate of this world ...a power that they (rightly it turns out) feared we would wield often but with little insight, responsibility or wisdom....thus causing to us and to every being of this world great harm and suffering. The dharma of powerful beings require far greater thought and reflection than the dharma of beings who yet remain subject to the rhythms of nature, and the fact that we were on the way to transcend the restrictions that nature imposes on all its creatures on earth (for good or ill) had become clear enough even then. This is even more true today. How can our highly complex technological civilization of 7 billion souls with immense capacities of destruction ( the atomic bombs) or creation (colonizing Mars) by guided by the religion of the ancestral spirits? They will no longer suffice by their own self. More is needed. That is the sense I get when I read the work of Buddha, Mahavira, Confucious or Socrates/Plato/Aristotle.

However, none of this implies that the celebration of god/goddesses/spirits/ancestors should not be a central aspect of spiritual expression. Here is fire and smoke dance with drums that is an important part of the worship of goddess Durga in my own hometown in Kolkata (and in other parts of India and the world).

I think we've gone wrong by deciding that because we're able to change things by using technology, that we don't need to listen to the ancestors, the world spirits, the spirits of our technology, and so on. My experience has been that some spirits want us to stop changing things, but there are others that see some of the things we humans are doing and say, "that is so cool! You're being creative, and doing things most of us have never ever thought of, or thought possible." They still have good advice to give about what to do, how to do it, etc. We just choose to pretend that the old ways and old guides and spirits don't work now, so we have to come up with something else on our own to make up for those we no longer listen to...

 

[YmirGF]

I have often wondered why Buddhism is not more popular than it is currently. I personally have found Buddhism to be a great help in thought and in life, as well as reasonably easy to grasp (unlike Hinduism and humanistic materialism) and generally devoid of serious logical or ethical problems (unlike Abrahamic religions).

So, for those you who have heard or read a bit about Buddhism. what were the main objections that caused you to not pursue it or give up on it or feel uninterested in it?

I think part of the problem with Buddhism is that it is too deep for many superficial thinkers. As much as I abhor Alan Watts he did manage to dumb it down for Western listeners, unfortunately, many take his diluted rendering of Buddhism as gospel without delving deeper.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I have often wondered why Buddhism is not more popular than it is currently. I personally have found Buddhism to be a great help in thought and in life, as well as reasonably easy to grasp (unlike Hinduism and humanistic materialism) and generally devoid of serious logical or ethical problems (unlike Abrahamic religions).

So, for those you who have heard or read a bit about Buddhism. what were the main objections that caused you to not pursue it or give up on it or feel uninterested in it?

For me, I was put off because at the time I thought Buddhism is just as escapist as Christianity, the religion I left. I felt it just had too much emphasis on escaping this existence which it views in a rather nihilist fashion - i.e. 'all is suffering'. At the time I had quite a nihilist view of the world which I was trying desperately to rid myself of so I didn't feel as though adopting a Buddhist worldview would help me.

 

[sayak83]

I think we've gone wrong by deciding that because we're able to change things by using technology, that we don't need to listen to the ancestors, the world spirits, the spirits of our technology, and so on. My experience has been that some spirits want us to stop changing things, but there are others that see some of the things we humans are doing and say, "that is so cool! You're being creative, and doing things most of us have never ever thought of, or thought possible." They still have good advice to give about what to do, how to do it, etc. We just choose to pretend that the old ways and old guides and spirits don't work now, so we have to come up with something else on our own to make up for those we no longer listen to...

I do not think there is any animosity between spirits/ancestors and Buddhism. In fact Buddhist countries (Thailand, Sri-Lanka, Tibet etc.) are quite well known for their abundant belief and veneration of spirits and ancestors as well. Buddha and Buddhism explicitly acknowledges their existence and role in the order of the world.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I do not think there is any animosity between spirits/ancestors and Buddhism. In fact Buddhist countries (Thailand, Sri-Lanka, Tibet etc.) are quite well known for their abundant belief and veneration of spirits and ancestors as well. Buddha and Buddhism explicitly acknowledges their existence and role in the order of the world.

Lol

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I do not think there is any animosity between spirits/ancestors and Buddhism. In fact Buddhist countries (Thailand, Sri-Lanka, Tibet etc.) are quite well known for their abundant belief and veneration of spirits and ancestors as well. Buddha and Buddhism explicitly acknowledges their existence and role in the order of the world.

I'm really not sure where this is going, or why...but it's certainly not something I want to argue, because I was initially explaining MY reason for personally not being a Buddhist.

While Buddhism has interacted with and coexists with local and regional folk religions, that's just fine. Christianity and Islam, as the other major 'world' religions, have also done so in many areas, but have also made a great effort to eradicate (or in some cases, incorporate) local/regional religions, and to force conversion, which I don't think Buddhism has done.

But my point is, when people start thinking of themselves as gods or demigods, and stop working with and listening to the ancestors and earth spirits, the result is going to be trouble--for everyone. In the West, that jump has been made through the Abrahamic faiths and the Enlightenment. I see at least the potential in Buddhism for rejecting the ancestors and spirits as illusion. It's a concern for me, but maybe if I had engaged MORE with Buddhism than I have, I might not be as concerned about it.

I guess one of the reasons it doesn't fit with me could be that the whole idea of the illusion, and the unity with the One, however it's conceived, is simply not something that I accept as real. Intellectually I understand it, but I do not experience it.

 

[DanielR]

to me it's too much meditation emphasis, and it's not really life affirming :-/, though I respect Buddhism a lot, I'm more into phenomenology right now which has many similarities to Buddhism sans meditation lol