Observers not allowed to monitor the vote count by the Democrats.

[Subduction Zone]

You know, it would be great if these kind of things had unlimited public access. Like a viewing floor that does not interfere with the people counting.

Why would poll attendees block off windows and doors so they can't see inside? People are naturally going to think something is rotten in Denmark there.

It is too easy to release private information that way.. Whether intentional or not. The media knows where not to video and as I just said, if they screw up they can and will be made to pay for their error. Mobs usually do not have the funds.

 

[shunyadragon]

It happened in Detroit Michigan by voting officials. Protesters were regarded as disruptive and they blocked the windows as a solution to the disruption.

There’s a Simple Reason Workers Covered Windows at a Detroit Vote-Counting Site

The simple reason is the the unruly crowd was disruptive and banging on the windows, illegally making videos.l

Protestors were indeed disruptive and not peaceful banging on the widows. It was negotiated that a few could come in as observers. There were already both Republican and Democratic observers in side monitoring the voter count.

 

[shunyadragon]

Wait, really?
I remember our nightly news subtly condemning Trump for holding rallies after we all shut down due to COVID. I say subtly only because they have to be indifferent when reporting the news stories. So you had to sort of read between the lines.
Incidentally the news didn’t speak favourably of Trump’s handling of the election results lol
Good god, even our news regards him as a toddler pitching a fit at this point

The media is correct that Trump is having temper tantrums in public, lying, make false charges that encourage violence.

 

[AgnosticGuy]

I feel as if we're getting off on the wrong foot here. As of now, we both agree that Trump has not provided verifiable evidence of voter fraud. But unlike you, I don't conclude that no evidence means that a claim is false. I know how to remain neutral.

Think for a minute. Why - in the middle of a pandemic - would a workplace keep people physically distanced?

In a workplace, people are not always socially distanced. In the same way people are supposed to wear mask but there are times they can't, like when they're eating or washing up.

BTW: can you tell me what PA law actually says about how close election observers are supposed to be able to get to the poll workers they're observing?

Not sure but it has to be reasonable enough so that way the process can be observed. The judge already ruled on that when it came to ballot counting in Philadelphia.

And you believe them?

I'm playing the role of a juror awaiting evidence.

How about the evidence that Trump's team has been engaging in voter suppression throughout this election process? Why would you assume that this tactic now isn't just part of that?

I don't assume anything. You're assuming that only Trump is capable of wrongdoing and never the Democrats. That's very naive. I'm simply waiting for evidence.

 

[AgnosticGuy]

Anecdotal personal claims have no merit.

Perhaps one or a few anecdotals might mean little but if you start getting a lot of them then you can build a case.

I remember studying NDEs. That type of experience was first known about through anecdotals. Those anecdotals were then expounded on when researchers collected more data, organized it, and classified it as a distinct experience typically occuring near death. Now scientists accept the experience occurs but it is a hallucination of a dying brain.

 

[SomeRandom]

The media is correct that Trump is having temper tantrums in public, lying, make false charges that encourage violence.

This graceless defeat (maybe) is giving me second hand embarrassment, honestly. Even our conservatives don’t act like this.
As an aside I just saw the Sydney Morning Herald (which is funny since I live in Qld) run a story I think it’s headline was “Inflame not inform. Republicans confront Trump over White House address.”
Our ABC news also claimed that a number of media outlets refused to play his address claiming it was baseless/full of lies

 

[Subduction Zone]

I feel as if we're getting off on the wrong foot here. As of now, we both agree that Trump has not provided verifiable evidence of voter fraud. But unlike you, I don't conclude that no evidence means that a claim is false. I know how to remain neutral.


In a workplace, people are not always socially distanced. In the same way people are supposed to wear mask but there are times they can't, like when they're eating or washing up.


Not sure but it has to be reasonable enough so that way the process can be observed. The judge already ruled on that when it came to ballot counting in Philadelphia.


I'm playing the role of a juror awaiting evidence.


I don't assume anything. You're assuming that only Trump is capable of wrongdoing and never the Democrats. That's very naive. I'm simply waiting for evidence.

The proper attitude to have when charges are made without evidence is to dismiss them. An adult does not make such charges without strong evidence at hand. What Trump did was to incite a riot. That is terribly irresponsible behavior. He does not like the perfectly legal way that the election is being run. Even FOX News has pointed out that he has no evidence. Though some of their hosts were pleading for it.

Have minor mistakes been made? That is all but a certainty. Is there any sign at all of fraud? Nope.

 

[AgnosticGuy]

The proper attitude to have when charges are made without evidence is to dismiss them.

Have minor mistakes been made? That is all but a certainty. Is there any sign at all of fraud? Nope.

You are not simply dismissing Trump's claim but you are also making a counter claim when you say that Trump is lying and that there is no voter fraud.

Your claim:
There is no voter fraud.
.....

How do you know that there is no voter fraud?

 

[shunyadragon]

You are not simply dismissing Trump's claim but you are also making a counter claim when you say that Trump is lying and that there is no voter fraud.

Your claim:
There is no voter fraud.

How do you know that there is no voter fraud?

I believe the claim is there is not any significant evidence of fraud that impacted the results of the election. In particular to the degree Trump asserts that fraud influenced the election.

Also claims of 'fraud' has the connotation of a large scale organized effort to influence the election like the thousands of illegal ballots found in a Humvee a block from the Philadelphia Convention Center with heavily armed MAGA QAnon supporters.

Though needing further explanation it is correct to say there is no evidence of organized ;successful fraud i the 2020 election.

 

[SkepticThinker]

It happened in Detroit Michigan by voting officials. Protesters were regarded as disruptive and they blocked the windows as a solution to the disruption.

There’s a Simple Reason Workers Covered Windows at a Detroit Vote-Counting Site

Angry protestors aren't election "observers."

They even call themselves "poll challengers" which isn't an official thing, in any capacity.

That's your best example?

Do you have any actual evidence of voter fraud?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Angry protestors aren't election "observers."

They even call themselves "poll challengers" which isn't an official thing, in any capacity.

That's your best example?

Do you have any actual evidence of voter fraud?

I don't think there is any evidence that I'm aware of so far, but if there is suspicion, it's reasonable to look into it to be sure. I would say its not out of the realm of possibility that voter fraud occurred somewhere, but I don't think its enough to skew figures to make a real impact.

I accepted Biden winning and he's the next president.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I don't think there is any evidence that I'm aware of so far, but if there is suspicion, it's reasonable to look into it to be sure. I would say its not out of the realm of possibility that voter fraud occurred somewhere, but I don't think its enough to skew figures to make a real impact.

Then how about we wait and see if there is any actual evidence, before we start declaring that anything illegal has occurred?

I accepted Biden winning and he's the next president.

Then you're already one step ahead of Trump.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Angry protestors aren't election "observers."

They even call themselves "poll challengers" which isn't an official thing, in any capacity.

That's your best example?

Do you have any actual evidence of voter fraud?

There's evidence of isolated cases of attempted voter fraud, but it seems to all be by Republicans.

For instance, there's this group of Trump supporters who showed up at a ballot counting centre, posing as election workers dropping off ballots, only they weren't real election workers and the ballots were fake:

Report: Armed QAnon Supporter Drove To Philadelphia To Deliver 'Truck Full Of Fake Votes'

 

[ImmortalFlame]

There's evidence of isolated cases of attempted voter fraud, but it seems to all be by Republicans.

For instance, there's this group of Trump supporters who showed up at a ballot counting centre, posing as election workers dropping off ballots, only they weren't real election workers and the ballots were fake:

Report: Armed QAnon Supporter Drove To Philadelphia To Deliver 'Truck Full Of Fake Votes'

That is beautiful.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I'm playing the role of a juror awaiting evidence.

Still waiting, huh? I hope you made yourself comfortable.

I’m waiting for the evidence of voter fraud too. But we’ve already seen evidence that Trump is deliberately trying to cast doubt on the outcome of the election due to unfounded claims of voter fraud, whether it exists or not, because he lost. That is despicable.

 

[Twilight Hue]