Occultism

[Desert Snake]

So where soes all the extra symbology etc. found in say the Catholic fall? Is it occult, if not, why? Seems similar to other things being described as "occult". So where does one separate occult from proper Christianity/ some people might even say that taking communion is "occult".

 

[blackout]

Moses and his staff that turned into snake.



The three that found Jesus when he was a baby.




Jesus when he saw moses and Elias in the mount.



Jesus when he talked to demons and passed them on to pigs.



Before the rooster crows, you´ll deny me 3 times.



and as Moses.



Actually, a necromancer is he who summons or revives the dead.

Like Jesus.



psychic? o.0

In any case, have you ever talked to Jesus using only your mind?

yes..... nicely done.

I participated in a thread once where I gave all kinds of examples of magic (ceremonial and otherwise) in Christianity.
I have absolutely no idea what thread it was, or even which sub forum.
Can't find it anywhere.

 

[1137]

yes..... nicely done.

I participated in a thread once where I gave all kinds of examples of magic (ceremonial and otherwise) in Christianity.
I have absolutely no idea what thread it was, or even which sub forum.
Can't find it anywhere.

Too bad, I'd love to see that.

 

[Me Myself]

Indeed, me too. It´s always interesting

According to Oxford dictionary, Christianity is a bunch of magic anyways.

I just find it funny too many fundamentalists and even liberals cant see it.

 

[Quintessence]

Labels get in the way sometimes. It seems to me that certain Christians just don't like labels like "magic" and "occult" even though they themselves have practices and beliefs that are analogous to these terms. No surprise, given there are a number of negative associations with those terms in our culture. Also no surprise considering the history of the anthropological study of magic, which once upon a time fancied driving a wedge between "magic" (primitive/Pagan) and "religion" (advanced/Abrahamic). It's not seen this way anymore, but old ways of thinking persist.

 

[Me Myself]

Well, they were the ones who put the negative label on it on the first place.

The fact that their practices are identical and that people have at last become less-blinded enough to realize is just tasty justice

 

[InChrist]

[FONT=&quot]There is an immense difference between the power and authority displayed by God the Creator of heaven and earth and those who practice sorcery.[/FONT]

Moses and his staff that turned into snake.

[FONT=&quot]Exodus 7-9; 8:18,19 — Pharaoh’s magicians and sorcerers tried to duplicate the signs and plagues God caused through Moses and Aaron (7:11,22; 8:7,8,18; 9:11). At first, they seemed to succeed, but soon they failed and admitted Moses had the power of God.[/FONT]

The three that found Jesus when he was a baby.

[FONT=&quot]They followed the star which God placed in the heavens for this purpose.[/FONT]

When they heard the king, they departed; and behold, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came and stood over where the young Child was. Matthew 2:9[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

Jesus when he saw moses and Elias in the mount.

[FONT=&quot]This was a special revelation given to the disciples by the power of God, showing them Moses, Elijah, and Jesus in their glorified state.[/FONT]

His clothes became shining, exceedingly white, like snow, such as no launderer on earth can whiten them. And Elijah appeared to them with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus. Mark 9:3-4

Jesus when he talked to demons and passed them on to pigs.

[FONT=&quot]Jesus did not just talk to demons. He commanded them to come out of people by the power and authority He had over them as God.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For it had often seized him, and he was kept under guard, bound with chains and shackles; and he broke the bonds and was driven by the demon into the wilderness.[/FONT] Luke 8:29

Before the rooster crows, you´ll deny me 3 times.

[FONT=&quot]God is omniscience knowing all things including the future. This is His attribute and ability alone as God. [/FONT]

and as Moses.

[FONT=&quot]Moses obeyed God and God used him as His servant to show His power.[/FONT]

Actually, a necromancer is he who summons or revives the dead.

Like Jesus.

[FONT=&quot]Jesus has all authority and power over life and death. This is entirely different from a human practicing necromancy.[/FONT]

Definition of NECROMANCY

1[FONT=&quot]:[/FONT] conjuration of the spirits of the dead for purposes of magically revealing the future or influencing the course of events

psychic? o.0

[FONT=&quot]God is not a magician or wizard. He is the Creator of heaven and earth and He forbids humans to participate in sorcery.


[/FONT]

In any case, have you ever talked to Jesus using only your mind?

[/quote]

[FONT=&quot]Yes, and it is called prayer the form of communication sanctioned by scripture for humans to communicate with their Creator. Those who practice sorcery or involve themselves with the spirit realm through forbidden means are subjecting themselves to demonic influence and harm. According to God's view of the subject in the scriptures they will not inherit eternal life.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Rev. 21:6-8[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For He is coming to judge the earth.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
With righteousness He shall judge the world,
And the peoples with equity. Psalm 98:9[/FONT]

 

[Orias]

Calm down now, lets remember this isn't a debate.

 

[Me Myself]

[FONT=&quot]There is an immense difference between the power and authority displayed by God the Creator of heaven and earth and those who practice sorcery.[/FONT]





[FONT=&quot]Exodus 7-9; 8:18,19 — Pharaoh’s magicians and sorcerers tried to duplicate the signs and plagues God caused through Moses and Aaron (7:11,22; 8:7,8,18; 9:11). At first, they seemed to succeed, but soon they failed and admitted Moses had the power of God.[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]They followed the star which God placed in the heavens for this purpose.[/FONT]

When they heard the king, they departed; and behold, the star which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came and stood over where the young Child was. Matthew 2:9[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]This was a special revelation given to the disciples by the power of God, showing them Moses, Elijah, and Jesus in their glorified state.[/FONT]

His clothes became shining, exceedingly white, like snow, such as no launderer on earth can whiten them. And Elijah appeared to them with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus. Mark 9:3-4




[FONT=&quot]Jesus did not just talk to demons. He commanded them to come out of people by the power and authority He had over them as God.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For it had often seized him, and he was kept under guard, bound with chains and shackles; and he broke the bonds and was driven by the demon into the wilderness.[/FONT] Luke 8:29



[FONT=&quot]God is omniscience knowing all things including the future. This is His attribute and ability alone as God. [/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]Moses obeyed God and God used him as His servant to show His power.[/FONT]




[FONT=&quot]Jesus has all authority and power over life and death. This is entirely different from a human practicing necromancy.[/FONT]

Definition of NECROMANCY

1[FONT=&quot]:[/FONT] conjuration of the spirits of the dead for purposes of magically revealing the future or influencing the course of events



[FONT=&quot]God is not a magician or wizard. He is the Creator of heaven and earth and He forbids humans to participate in sorcery.


[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Yes, and it is called prayer the form of communication sanctioned by scripture for humans to communicate with their Creator. Those who practice sorcery or involve themselves with the spirit realm through forbidden means are subjecting themselves to demonic influence and harm. According to God's view of the subject in the scriptures they will not inherit eternal life.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Rev. 21:6-8[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For He is coming to judge the earth.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
With righteousness He shall judge the world,
And the peoples with equity. Psalm 98:9[/FONT]

do you think any of this refute any of what I said?

Praying and magic are the same as per the Oxford´s dictionary definition.

Raising anyone from the dead always causes an effect, so yeah, necromancy. God is the one who placed all the stars without exception, so yeah, astrology. Predicting the future is also done by men because as Jesus said in John we are gods, and as he said when we are sick we are him, when we ar ein prision we are him, when we are hungry, we are him. How could we not be him when we are healthy too?

He directs a supernatural force to create natural events. That´s called Magic.

What Jesus did to demons is still rightly called magic anyways. He is commanding supernatural beings by a supernatural force to help natural people and changing natural events. There is not one single thing there that is against the definition of Magic. You simply don´t want to call it that way.

 

[1137]

Prayer definitely is a form of magick. A weaker form but still a form. It is one of the many ways we manifest our Will into reality, although it is less likely to work in my opinion.

 

[Orias]

I agree.

It works better, after you understand magic better.

 

[InChrist]

Prayer definitely is a form of magick. A weaker form but still a form. It is one of the many ways we manifest our Will into reality, although it is less likely to work in my opinion.

Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. Matthew 6:10

"Your will be done" meaning God's will not my own.

Prayer is communicating with God the Creator and is no more magic than speaking to a friend.

 

[Orias]

Besides all of the influence you impose upon yourself by dabbling with your own mind.

Yes, we all know what thats like.

Now please, this is not a debate thread.

 

[1137]

Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. Matthew 6:10

"Your will be done" meaning God's will not my own.

Prayer is communicating with God the Creator and is no more magic than speaking to a friend.

Speaking to a friend can be magick. You reponding to our evidence that you are incorrect is magick. Your thoughts were not known to us, now they are. Change has occured in conformity with your Will. Enjoy hell

 

[1137]

How can sorcery be a work of the flesh when it's a spiritual practice? Theres nothing material about it, your religion puts far too much emphasis on materialism

 

[InChrist]

How can sorcery be a work of the flesh when it's a spiritual practice? Theres nothing material about it, your religion puts far too much emphasis on materialism

[FONT=&quot]I believe sorcery is a work of the flesh because it is rooted in lust for power; power to manipulate one’s environment including other people and/or power to feel superior or more special than others. According to the scriptures, this is the lust of the flesh. Also, according to God’s opinion as expressed in the Old and New Testament the only spiritual aspect of sorcery is that it connects a person with dark, unholy, unclean, demonic beings. True spirituality comes from knowing the power of the One Creator God and obeying the leading of the Holy Spirit in works based on (agape) love, light, holiness, goodness, and purity.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 1 John 1:5-6[/FONT]

 

[Sylvan]

I believe sorcery is a work of the flesh because it is rooted in lust for power; power to manipulate one’s environment including other people and/or power to feel superior or more special than others.

I completely disagree with this and take offence to it. As a sorcerer I was driven to do what I do from a very young age. Why that is I consider to be a central mystery to my "religion". Not a "we keep a secret" mystery but rather a riddle which is contemplated and understood in various ways as one progresses in this life. It's not for everyone, nor is any path. Many who go to sorcery for the reasons you describe end themselves in one way or another.

And as for 'feeling superior or more special than others' I might well point that out as being a central motivating factor in your own beliefs. Certainly in your use of large, shouty, typefaces. Here is the true impulse behind this desire to force everyone into your comfortable vision of reality with stories of hellfire and debate points drawn from that ridiculous book.

 

[1137]

InChrist:
You ignored the fact that by simply typing out your opinions you are practicing magick. Is God guiding your hand? Do you enter a deep state of prayer / meditation before typing and allow Him to speak through you? If not, which is the case, then you are practicing magick without the aide of God. Doesn't this mean that you are destined to hell? Hell or complete silence and isolation, never causing even the slightest change again.

 

[Me Myself]

Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. Matthew 6:10

"Your will be done" meaning God's will not my own.

Whenever you pray for someone you are performing magic.

Jesus encouraged this btw.

Whenever you even suggest to a supernatural power (read: God) to affect reality in any way you are performing magic.

So, prayer is magic. Jesus did say, ask for what you wish and your father from heaven will provide. He got mad at people not having enough faith to recieve what they wished for (faith= magical power in this regard btw)

Jesus said that with enough faith one could move a mountain. This means moving natural means by supernatural force. This is called magic.

 

[1137]

Prayer is magick, but magick is not prayer