Of Setian and setian.

[ktf]

The word worship is a tricky one. I worship Set in the sense that I honor Him above all others, and Work with and collaborate with Him. And at times during Ritual Workings I do kneel before the Altar of Set. But each Setian develops their own unique relationship with the Prince of Darkness. By kneeling before the Majesty of Set I am not surrendering my Self, but rather I do it in honor of That which infused within me the greatest Gift - the Flame of Everlasting Being. And btw I am not the only Setian who does this. I have participated in my share of group Workings with other Setians and have witnessed members of the Priesthood kneeling before the Altar during the overwhelming and energizing presence of Set upon a successful activation of the Magical Link.

/Adramelek\

This is the part that I do not understand..and I will be the first to admit that I am far from understanding everything..I do not kneel before the altar of anything or anyone. Entities (human or otherwise) that I collaborate with I do not kneel to. I do not worship, or attempt to merge or harmonize myself with any being outside of myself. The LHP to me is a path of psyche centered growth and (hopefully) expansion. To whom did Set bow? To whom did Satan bow? To whom did Lucifer bow? Whether these beings actually exist or not they can offer an example of what it is to walk the LHP. This does not mean (in my opinion) that the black magician should worship, or kneel at the altar of these beings. To say a black magician kneels at an altar....that just seems like quite a contradiction.

 

[Darth Brooks]

This is the part that I do not understand..and I will be the first to admit that I am far from understanding everything..

I appreciate your honesty. I cannot rightfully claim to understand everything either.

I do not kneel before the altar of anything or anyone. Entities (human or otherwise) that I collaborate with I do not kneel to. I do not worship, or attempt to merge or harmonize myself with any being outside of myself. The LHP to me is a path of psyche centered growth and (hopefully) expansion.

Given your definition of the LHP, I appreciate your position.

To whom did Set bow? To whom did Satan bow? To whom did Lucifer bow?

One might also ask, "To whom did IHVH, Brahman, or Allah bow?" Yet the religions identified with these deities commonly involve worship. While I understand your position in and of itself, I don't understand what is so unusual about worshiping a deity who bows to no one or who is considered adversarial to other deities. It's nothing new.

Whether these beings actually exist or not they can offer an example of what it is to walk the LHP. This does not mean (in my opinion) that the black magician should worship, or kneel at the altar of these beings. To say a black magician kneels at an altar....that just seems like quite a contradiction.

By the definition that you find most accurate, it certainly is a contradiction. The thing is, people like myself are working with completely different definitions to start with.

 

[ktf]

By the definition that you find most accurate, it certainly is a contradiction. The thing is, people like myself are working with completely different definitions to start with.[/quote]


Good point. Of course I recognize that there seem to be (atleast) 2 definitions of LHP represented in these forums. By the definition of the LHP as technique and not ideology, with the goal of merging or harmonizing with a being outside of oneself, then I can see the worship.
Interstingly there appear to be practioners of the LHP who view the LHP as a psyche-centers praxis and who still worship the Prince of Darkness.
The TOS were the first (that I have found) that really articulated this praxis of psyche-centered LHP. Now this current has expanded beyond the TOS. What I find interesting is that there are magicians in this current who incorporate worship. This seems a contradiction. But contradiciton can be beautiful, and I recoginze that no one person or group has a trademark on "truth". So, while I find it to be a contradiction, and an interesting one, I do not think it is "wrong".

In my opinion, any Prince of Darkness who wants or accepts worship is no Prince of Darkness at all.

 

[EtuMalku]

The TOS were the first (that I have found) that really articulated this praxis of psyche-centered LHP. Now this current has expanded beyond the TOS.

Where has this expanded beyond the Temple?

 

[ktf]

Where has this expanded beyond the Temple?

Well, to point to just one obvious example, this very sub forum. Each individual not affiliated with the TOS who posts to this forum and announces their progression upon the LHP or as setians (whatever that may mean) would be an example.
There are many people who have resonated with the writings of TOS members like Mr. Webb, Mr. Flowers, or Mr.Aquino. Some of these people seek entrance into the TOS and others do not. But, the ideas are out there....and you can rest assured that they are being progressed both inside and outside of the TOS. There are Orders that work in private. There are isolated Black Magicians. There are folk who leave the TOS and continue to Xeper. Initiation can occur in all kinds of circumstances.
Many ideas become bigger than the people or places that give rise to them....this is a good thing.

 

[Darth Brooks]

The TOS were the first (that I have found) that really articulated this praxis of psyche-centered LHP.

So far as I can tell from my own research, this is true.

Now this current has expanded beyond the TOS. What I find interesting is that there are magicians in this current who incorporate worship. This seems a contradiction.

I agree. I am not sure how I would justify worship in such a context.

But contradiciton can be beautiful, and I recoginze that no one person or group has a trademark on "truth". So, while I find it to be a contradiction, and an interesting one, I do not think it is "wrong".

Agreed. "Whatever floats your boat, as long as it doesn't sink mine."

In my opinion, any Prince of Darkness who wants or accepts worship is no Prince of Darkness at all.

For what it's worth, I don't refer to Set as a "Prince of Darkness." I prefer to use titles that were used by the ancient Setians (e.g., "Lord of the Nighttime Sky," "Lord of the Red Lands," "Lord of Twofold Strength," etc.).

 

[Adramelek]

This is the part that I do not understand..and I will be the first to admit that I am far from understanding everything..I do not kneel before the altar of anything or anyone. Entities (human or otherwise) that I collaborate with I do not kneel to. I do not worship, or attempt to merge or harmonize myself with any being outside of myself. The LHP to me is a path of psyche centered growth and (hopefully) expansion. To whom did Set bow? To whom did Satan bow? To whom did Lucifer bow? Whether these beings actually exist or not they can offer an example of what it is to walk the LHP. This does not mean (in my opinion) that the black magician should worship, or kneel at the altar of these beings. To say a black magician kneels at an altar....that just seems like quite a contradiction.

Hi ktf,

I can see where it can get confusing. I don't worship Set in the sense of surrending my Self to Him, by no means. To me the Self is the very Gift of Set, the very essence of Set within me. It is very rare that I ever kneel before my Altar, but there have been times over the years when I have during a Working. But I have done it not in surrender of the Self, but rather as a sense of respect and admiration only. What one experiences in the ritual chamber is very subjective and very personal and sometimes the sense of the Powers of Darkness can become so exhilerating and overwhelming that an occasional bending of knee as a show of respect is appropriate, at least to me.

You are correct, the LHP is the Path of self-directed Self-Creation or psyche centric evolution. To the Setian Magician it is known as the Path of Xeper. Be it known however that I kneel before no man. But I see nothing wrong with during a Working occasionally kneeling before the Creator of my psyche, the Dark Lord Set who infused within me and all mankind the Freedom of mind and will.

In a successful GBM Working the mind and will of the Setian and Set become as One, but the sence of the individual Self is never lost. It is a beautiful touching minds and mutual exchanging of essences. And the more and more this occures the more likely Xeper can result.

/Adramelek\

 

[Adramelek]

Regarding the term "Prince of Darkness". This Entity who has been given many names by man is the Prince of Darkness. "Prince" being derived from the Latin Princeps= First. He/It is the First of Our Kind, the First to define HimSelf against the resistence of the Universal Stasis, the First Principle of psyche centric Awareness. On a Macrocosmic scale He/It was the First to explore the limitless hidden/dark potential of Being, the First to explore the Mysteries of the Universe, the "Darkness" and to Become Master thereof. This is why in the Book of Coming Forth by Night Set proclaims: "Those who call me the Prince of Darkness do me no dishonor."

/Adramelek\

 

[ktf]

Regarding the term "Prince of Darkness". This Entity who has been given many names by man is the Prince of Darkness. "Prince" being derived from the Latin Princeps= First. He/It is the First of Our Kind, the First to define HimSelf against the resistence of the Universal Stasis, the First Principle of psyche centric Awareness. On a Macrocosmic scale He/It was the First to explore the limitless hidden/dark potential of Being, the First to explore the Mysteries of the Universe, the "Darkness" and to Become Master thereof. This is why in the Book of Coming Forth by Night Set proclaims: "Those who call me the Prince of Darkness do me no dishonor."

/Adramelek\

I like this description. Whether the Prince of Darkness is metaphorical, or actually an objective reality (or both!), I like this description.

 

[blackout]

WerShape>> to take form or mold shape...
also Worthiness of Shape or Form.

Set has shown himSelf to me as The K/Night of S/Words.
I am the Queen of S/Words.

When I come to my knees,
in Awe of the k/Night
I am thus Knighted,
by the Sword of Set.

It is by that Power that I rise
to greater things.
Things worthy of my formation.
Higher, Deeper TransFormations of Self
and Personal Reality.

It is only in this context of Self Formation
that one might say I WerShape.

I am Worthy. My Vision is Worthy.
I Shape mySelf.

 

[blackout]

I have ..... questions to ask about Set, Nyx, and Chaos..

but have no time right now.

 

[Adramelek]

Ave Vi!

In regards to Set as a God of Chaos. He is in the sense that as the Greatest Black Magician in the Universe he is a disruptor of the Laws which govern the Order of the Cosmos. However, he is also the First to achieve, in aeons past, Absolute divine Self-hood and thus is the embodiment of Self-Order in that He is Ordered in and of Him Self, according to the BoCFbN.

/Adramelek\

 

[EtuMalku]

Set is the Principle of Creation, in order to be created Set needed HarWer (OU) together they allow both to be comprehended by Man.

 

[Adramelek]

From the Book of Coming Forth by Night:

"But HarWer (Horus) is a strange and fitful presence, I, Set, am my Self distinct from the Order of the Cosmos, yet am ordered in and of my Self. HarWer I was when I was once part of the Cosmos and could achieve idenity only by becoming what the Cosmic order was not. By HarWer a cancelled the imbalance, leaving a Void in which true Creation could take form as Set."