Oklahoma schools in revolt over Bible mandate

[anna.]

I'm 53 years old and live in the bible belt

Do you know why the Caged Bird Sings?

The secular world is attempting to snuff us out, not just Christians.

 

[Balthazzar]

This is a lot less true than you suppose. I am one of those who don't like religion, but I keep my nose out of it altogether, except when tacitly invited to address it here. You are perfectly welcome to go to whatever church or temple you like, to pray as you will -- but you must not invoke any right to include me in your religious rules. I happen to be gay, and a lot of Christians and Muslims don't like that, because they suppose that their god told them not to. Too bad, I say. It's what I am, and no religious person has any right to try and deny me every human right available to others. And yet, they will try. They'll try banning books, and demonstrations, and my right to marry who I will. That is not remaining "part of earth's dynamics," it is trying to control them -- to the detriment of others.

And that is not a Christian issue alone, either.

Banning bibles from our schools as proposed - for its historic content and impact on our global society, and how that influence relates to human social dynamics, and how artists from around the world have drawn inspiration from the content therein, is what many are supporting. What's next ... banning LBGT attendance or to segregate to such an extent that we are forced to assemble in our respective demographics?

While our bruises from some types of people last longer than others, if we don't allow the wounds to heal, they likely never will.

 

[Balthazzar]

Which is exactly why the no religion in schools rule exists, to treat all religions and none equally, History and culture is another story and yes it can be taught better, but not by posting religious icons on the walls.

We're in Oklahoma today, but Louisianna may be an amicable first step.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The Constitutions authors had "tiny minds".
Some has some severe bigotry towards USA.

Not bigotry. Disdain of what it has become perhaps.
Just like the UK and previous empires lost their power
The USA is losing theirs.
There is no escape it is inevitable.
Thought the American lead will be rather shorter than most.
It might try to extend its reign by war, but that will only make the crash worse. And more complete.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not bigotry. Disdain of what it has become perhaps.
Just like the UK and previous empires lost their power
The USA is losing theirs.
There is no escape it is inevitable.
Thought the American lead will be rather shorter than most.
It might try to extend its reign by war, but that will only make the crash worse. And more complete.

We'll agree to disagree.

 

[Balthazzar]

Look, Bibles are not banned in public schools. This is about mandating them in the curriculum. In 1963, SCOTUS ruled that mandatory Bible reading was unconstitutional because of its violation of the constitutional ban on religious establishment. I got my instruction on the Bible in Sunday school, and that was a choice imposed on me by my parents, not the government. The historical influence of religions on civilization can and should be taught in the schools, but no child should be instructed by a public school in what they ought to believe. They also need to learn why the First Amendment bans an establishment of religion by federal, state, and local authorities in the United States. That's our true history. Sadly, it isn't taught enough these days because of all the political struggles to control young minds. Schools should teach critical thinking skills, not religious doctrine.



We all are, just not the one with the outcome you want the story to have.

I agree. What outcome would mine be in your educated analysis of what I've stated thus far as my stance?

 

[Pogo]

Banning bibles from our schools as proposed - for its historic content and impact on our global society, and how that influence relates to human social dynamics, and how artists from around the world have drawn inspiration from the content therein, is what many are supporting. What's next ... banning LBGT attendance or to segregate to such an extent that we are forced to assemble in our respective demographics?

While our bruises from some types of people last longer than others, if we don't allow the wounds to heal, they likely never will.

Go back to sleep and wake up again, whatever was going through your head was a dream/nightmare. This discussion is not about banning the Bible in schools, it is about an idiotic mandate on the part of a religious zealot hoping for a position in the Trump administration and making the state of Oklahoma donate to Trump.

The mandate is that the Bible is to be taught in all classes and in service of that, every class shall have a Bible in it that matches the version that Trump is selling.
The objection is not to the Bible, but the imposition of it beyond its appropriate situation in an educational environment.

Everything you have been arguing would have a very different meaning to you if you thought about being a Christian and the book being advocated was the Koran.

Sleep on it.

 

[Pogo]

I agree. What outcome would mine be in your educated analysis of what I've stated thus far as my stance?

You are apparently inadvertently advocating for a theocracy by misinterpreting the mandate to put a Trump Bible in every classroom and to teach from it and the objections to that major change from the current standard where we do not require lessons from the Bible in every class and somehow you have expanded this to somehow imply that not going full hog on theocracy to be an implication that we should ban the Bible from schools and not teach about it at all.

I think you should reflect and re-present your position because it may not be what you have led others to believe.

 

[Pogo]

We're in Oklahoma today, but Louisianna may be an amicable first step.

Amicable to what or whom, what is your position and why?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

We'll agree to disagree.

Are you suggesting that the USA is not losing it's power.
Or that it never will.

 

[Balthazzar]

Go back to sleep and wake up again, whatever was going through your head was a dream/nightmare. This discussion is not about banning the Bible in schools, it is about an idiotic mandate on the part of a religious zealot hoping for a position in the Trump administration and making the state of Oklahoma donate to Trump.

The mandate is that the Bible is to be taught in all classes and in service of that, every class shall have a Bible in it that matches the version that Trump is selling.
The objection is not to the Bible, but the imposition of it beyond its appropriate situation in an educational environment.

Everything you have been arguing would have a very different meaning to you if you thought about being a Christian and the book being advocated was the Koran.

Sleep on it.

This has already been brought up in this discussion, to which I suggested that it's likely that there is a unified bilateral type effort in play. The proposal does not appear to limit the inclusion to those Trump is selling but would also accept those which include the same added content, which I wouldn't think to be difficult to produce.

The banning came over 40 years ago, and the ongoing battle is to keep them banned from being utilized for the suggested application.

I find this somewhat troubling if not secretive in nature, as if some religions may not wish to include their text books as part of the effort in play - (As an "academic only"), specifically...if this is ever passed through the Supreme Court, that is. If it is passed, a door opens for inclusion, which some would be against, and others not.

Applied as proposed, I have no issue with the inclusion of other texts like the bible to be part of the academic included in the curriculum, but I question whether the opening of the "gates" will be as welcomed as some might envision it to be, considering the possible ramifications and what it might mean for other religions.

 

[Balthazzar]

Amicable to what or whom, what is your position and why?

It is a well-aimed (amicable) first step towards the inclusion of religiously themed content in public schools.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Hey, if they want to learn about fawn breasts and donkey emissions, let them. That might be better suited to a sex ed class though.

 

[Balthazzar]

Hey, if they want to learn about fawn breasts and donkey emissions, let them. That might be better suited to a sex ed class though.

Maybe biology ...

Religious text would be well placed and appropriately discussed in world history class, probably theater and art, also. I'm sure there are other areas of life influenced by the many religions around the world. Starting somewhere is a requirement if we ever wish to implement a more inclusive study of world dynamics.

"World dynamics"

New class potential?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"I believe that the best way to become an atheist is to read the bible." - Penn Jillette

Teaching the Bible has much room for malicious compliance.

I was thinking, okey dokie, let's teach Jehovah's 10 next to America's 10 and see how J's 10 did not influence A's 10, nor are the two compatibls.

 

[Balthazzar]

"I believe that the best way to become an atheist is to read the bible." - Penn Jillette

Teaching the Bible has much room for malicious compliance.

I wouldn't argue the point of the quote.

Teaching the bible should be an induvial effort, but speaking the associated scriptures as a pastor or priest at a church would be expected, if only to reference an assigned reading suggestion for those interested in searching the matters out for themselves.

 

[Heyo]

This has already been brought up in this discussion, to which I suggested that it's likely that there is a unified bilateral type effort in play. The proposal does not appear to limit the inclusion to those Trump is selling but would also accept those which include the same added content, which I wouldn't think to be difficult to produce.

The RFP has an answering deadline of only 2 weeks (instead of the usual 4), and shipping must be completed 2 weeks after the contract has been closed. Anyone who doesn't see how that is tailored toward the Trump bible, is either incredibly naïve or doesn't care about a side dish of corruption to the religious bigotry.
What is it in your case? Indifference to corruption or naïveté?

 

[Copernicus]

I agree. What outcome would mine be in your educated analysis of what I've stated thus far as my stance?

From what you've stated so far, the Bible would be required reading in public schools. This would change the status quo from what it is now--the exclusion of teaching biblical doctrine in public school classrooms. Note that Bibles are not now banned from public school libraries, and no schoolchild is prevented from such instruction in the home or places of worship. If that is not what you advocate, then state clearly what you do advocate.

 

[Revoltingest]

Are you suggesting that the USA is not losing it's power.
Or that it never will.

No.

 

[Balthazzar]

The RFP has an answering deadline of only 2 weeks (instead of the usual 4), and shipping must be completed 2 weeks after the contract has been closed. Anyone who doesn't see how that is tailored toward the Trump bible, is either incredibly naïve or doesn't care about a side dish of corruption to the religious bigotry.
What is it in your case? Indifference to corruption or naïveté?

Or an effort was made, supported, accommodated, and a deal was made creating a win/win between a unified bilateral. Moving forward is not off the agenda, (I wouldn't think) and it was suggested that these would be easy to produce.