Old Testament Questions

[Vyruufin]

So yeah, this has been on my mind for quite some time now. Is the O.T false? Now first off, the style of writing and ideology greatly differs from the N.T and in the O.T, in the O.T God has told the Jews to kill all Akkadians and encouraged slavery. God supposedly promoted racial segregation, murder, rape and many other horrible crimes which were completely denied in the N.T

Now In the N.T it has been told that Christ put an end to the O.T when he died at the cross, and the whole 'I did not come to abolish but to complete' takes on a whole different meaning if you read it in Greek/Hebrew. The thing is, the only obstacle between me and Christianity is the O.T. I find the N.T to be beautiful and touching, but the O.T seems to be too childish/genocidal for my taste. Remember that God is portrayed as loving and caring in the N.T, however in the O.T he seems to act like the Zeus: Jealous, paranoid and if anything murderous.

I've seen a couple of religious arguments about the morality of the bible and I see that the common argument is mainly against the O.T, I rarely come across anything about the N.T

Now I'm not exactly a bible scholar, but is the N.T heavily supportive of the O.T? I don't see it like that but I'd like to see if any argument like this is valid. Also should we consider the society during that time? Would the Jews have listened to Christ if he simply denied everything they've been holding on to for the past 2000 years? And couldn't directly tell them it was false? Is it part of a greater plan?

 

[Iti oj]

Jesus said to keep the old laws and jesus supports ethical slavery

 

[Vyruufin]

Jesus said to keep the old laws and jesus supports ethical slavery

Would you mind please citing a source? I can't exactly trust random statements.

And on more than one occasion he said the O.T ended when he died at the cross.

 

[sandandfoam]

My understanding of scripture is that they are complex, wonderful myths that convey truths that mere facts never could. They are poetry and wonderment.

Yet many many people seem to imagine scripture as being like the user manual for a washing machine. Press button A, set temp to x and spin for half an hour.

God promotes slavery rape etc. - holy moly man, use your imagination before it grows mould.

 

[Vyruufin]

My understanding of scripture is that they are complex, wonderful myths that convey truths that mere facts never could. They are poetry and wonderment.

Yet many many people seem to imagine scripture as being like the user manual for a washing machine. Press button A, set temp to x and spin for half an hour.

God promotes slavery rape etc. - holy moly man, use your imagination before it grows mould.

I simply can't see it, how can it possibly fit? That can be applied to the N.T, but all I see in the O.T is manuals and instructions, there's no room for imagination.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The old testament and new were written by different people at different times
The "Old testament" was Borrowed from the Jews and represents their take on God, the law, and history.

The New Testament uses many references and prophecies from the Old to confirm Christian beliefs.
Neither Testament can be considered an accurate history over the period covered. They are simply libraries of collected scripture.

The Old testament is often a justification for what the Jews actually did, and believed were Gods wishes. Their actions were consistent with the peoples of the time.

The new testament has the benefit of Jesus teachings and is generally more humane. But the stories are interpreted though the mind of people steeped in Jewish history, so are perhaps some what biased to past times and concepts.

 

[sandandfoam]

I simply can't see it, how can it possibly fit? That can be applied to the N.T, but all I see in the O.T is manuals and instructions, there's no room for imagination.

Well if that's how you see it and you're happy then that's fine.
If you're curious then read more. Simple as that.

Saying there's no room for imagination seems akin to saying 'I'm bored'. It's up to you.

 

[Vyruufin]

The old testament and new were written by different people at different times
The "Old testament" was Borrowed from the Jews and represents their take on God, the law, and history.

The New Testament uses many references and prophecies from the Old to confirm Christian beliefs.
Neither Testament can be considered an accurate history over the period covered. They are simply libraries of collected scripture.

The Old testament is often a justification for what the Jews actually did, and believed were Gods wishes. Their actions were consistent with the peoples of the time.

The new testament has the benefit of Jesus teachings and is generally more humane. But the stories are interpreted though the mind of people steeped in Jewish history, so are perhaps some what biased to past times and concepts.

Maybe parts of the O.T is fake? Wouldn't that answer that question? Maybe only certain parts of it were forged, that way the O.T and the N.T can both be real.

 

[Vyruufin]

Well if that's how you see it and you're happy then that's fine.
If you're curious then read more. Simple as that.

Saying there's no room for imagination seems akin to saying 'I'm bored'. It's up to you.

Maybe I could give it a whirl, I'm probably blind in terms of spiritual imagination.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Maybe parts of the O.T is fake? Wouldn't that answer that question? Maybe only certain parts of it were forged, that way the O.T and the N.T can both be real.

They are not fakes. Though they do not always tell the whole truth.
They are both 100% real. But what was written was a mixture of history, fable. wishful thinking, Law, poetry and musings about God. they were written by dozens of individual authors, gathered together selected edited over centuries.
They are not the only early scriptural writings, but they are the main surviving ones.

 

[Vyruufin]

They are not fakes. Though they do not always tell the whole truth.
They are both 100% real. But what was written was a mixture of history, fable. wishful thinking, Law, poetry and musings about God. they were written by dozens of individual authors, gathered together selected edited over centuries.
They are not the only early scriptural writings, but they are the main surviving ones.

Do you believe that the N.T is a 'mixture of history, fable. wishful thinking, Law, poetry and musings about God. they were written by dozens of individual authors, gathered together selected edited over centuries.'?

The N.T mainly relies on Christ's teachings, doesn't it? And I'm not exactly sure about the O.T, I'm really doubting the validity of the scriptures.

 

[Tarheeler]

If we were going to call one "fake", I wouldn't pick the Tanakh. But I don't think it's that simple, and Terry's response is a pretty good one.

They're different scriptures written at different times by different people of different beliefs. It would be naive, in my opinion, to expect perfect cohesion between them.

As for it being "full of instructions", you really should read about Jewish philosophy and spirituality. I think you'll be quite surprised.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Do you believe that the N.T is a 'mixture of history, fable. wishful thinking, Law, poetry and musings about God. they were written by dozens of individual authors, gathered together selected edited over centuries.'?

The N.T mainly relies on Christ's teachings, doesn't it? And I'm not exactly sure about the O.T, I'm really doubting the validity of the scriptures.

The teachings of Jesus are mainly contained in the four Gospels, Themselves constructed from earlier sources.
All the other books of the new testament were written by numerous writers including Paul, who never heard Jesus speak or teach.( not all the books attributed to him were written by him.) the New Testament books were selected from a much larger selecting of works some time in the third century. We will never know the extent of the editing that took place before or since. as Earlier copies of the books are conspicuous by their absence. though early scraps do appear from time to time.

Modern translations and scolarship have brought far greater accuracy to the meaning of most works.

Scholars spend their entire life studying o parts of the available literature the job is never complete. nor is our understanding.

 

[Vyruufin]

If we were going to call one "fake", I wouldn't pick the Tanakh. But I don't think it's that simple, and Terry's response is a pretty good one.

They're different scriptures written at different times by different people of different beliefs. It would be naive, in my opinion, to expect perfect cohesion between them.

As for it being "full of instructions", you really should read about Jewish philosophy and spirituality. I think you'll be quite surprised.

There are parts of the that I simply cannot grasp, mainly in the Torah., I don't really have much doubt about the rest of it, but I'm a bit sceptical about parts of the O.T, since they contradict with the N.T.

 

[Vyruufin]

The teachings of Jesus are mainly contained in the four Gospels, Themselves constructed from earlier sources.
All the other books of the new testament were written by numerous writers including Paul, who never heard Jesus speak or teach.( not all the books attributed to him were written by him.) the New Testament books were selected from a much larger selecting of works some time in the third century. We will never know the extent of the editing that took place before or since. as Earlier copies of the books are conspicuous by their absence. though early scraps do appear from time to time.

Modern translations and scolarship have brought far greater accuracy to the meaning of most works.

But doesn't Paul's writing match up with many of Christ's sayings and teachings? Wouldn't that give more credibility to the N.T? And either way the N.T goes in just one direction it's basically one message.

But my doubts lie within some parts of the O.T, mainly the Torah.

 

[Tarheeler]

There are parts of the that I simply cannot grasp, mainly in the Torah., I don't really have much doubt about the rest of it, but I'm a bit sceptical about parts of the O.T, since they contradict with the N.T.

Why would you expect to agree or understand (using a Christian outlook) everything in the Jewish Bible?

They are two different religions with some very different beliefs. If you agreed with everything in the Torah, I'd expect you to go find a rabbi to talk to. Christianity is a separate religion from Judaism, not a continuation of it.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

But doesn't Paul's writing match up with many of Christ's sayings and teachings? Wouldn't that give more credibility to the N.T? And either way the N.T goes in just one direction it's basically one message.

But my doubts lie within some parts of the O.T, mainly the Torah.

In part you are right about the new testament, the Books were selected because they agreed with their thinking about Jesus in the third century. Many other books were discarded.
Paul sometimes agrees with Jesus teachings and sometimes they are his own. ( he was writing letters after all, not scripture or history)

If you have a problem with the Torah take it up with Jewish scholars, but use their translations. Unlike Christians their interpretations are not fixed but are revised to suit the context. If you ask a number of Rabbis to give you a meaning of a text you will get as many different replies.

I never read the OT to learn about Christianity.

 

[Vyruufin]

In part you are right about the new testament, the Books were selected because they agreed with their thinking about Jesus in the third century. Many other books were discarded.
Paul sometimes agrees with Jesus teachings and sometimes they are his own. ( he was writing letters after all, not scripture or history)

If you have a problem with the Torah take it up with Jewish scholars, but use their translations. Unlike Christians their interpretations are not fixed but are revised to suit the context. If you ask a number of Rabbis to give you a meaning of a text you will get as many different replies.

I never read the OT to learn about Christianity.

Can you please give me the names of some of the discarded books? I'd like to look them up.

And I'm not very knowledgable about the O.T that's why I was asking here, I'll use your advice, thanks for replying.

 

[Vyruufin]

Why would you expect to agree or understand (using a Christian outlook) everything in the Jewish Bible?

They are two different religions with some very different beliefs. If you agreed with everything in the Torah, I'd expect you to go find a rabbi to talk to. Christianity is a separate religion from Judaism, not a continuation of it.

Not exactly, I think that having a Christian outlook helps you understand parts of the O.T, however I agree that it's a separate religion just like you stated.

And I thought I could find some expert on Judaism here, considering it is a religious forum, lol.

 

[Levite]

The "Old Testament" is Jewish Scripture. It was written by Jewish authors, in the Jewish language, for Jews, to be interpreted using Jewish interpretive techniques.

The "New Testament" is Christian Scripture. It was written around five hundred years later than the Hebrew Scriptures, primarily by non-Jews, for non-Jews, in non-Jewish languages, in service of theological and philosophical agenda that are distinctively Christian, not Jewish.

Jewish scriptures often seem confusing, impenetrable, or contrarian to Christians because they are attempting to read them in translations (usually made by non-Jews, and seldom very accurate with reference to the idioms, metaphors, images, wordplay, and poetry of the Hebrew originals), without the elucidating lens of the Oral Torah (the ancient traditions of how to interpret the scriptures, at first passed down orally, then set in writing by the original Rabbis in the Talmud and the Midrash), through which the Written Torah was designed to be read and interpreted. Many of the laws and directives that seem arbitrary or unjust to Christian readers seem so because they don't understand how they were actually intended to be interpreted and implemented-- that information is not self-explanatory in the written text.

But most importantly, Jewish scriptures seem difficult to Christians because Christian Bibles attempt-- either in translation or through eisegetic commentary-- to read Jewish text Christologically, trying to force Jewish text into a framework which it simply was not designed to fit. It works no better than trying to interpret the Quran as a Hindu text-- which is to say, not at all.