On Evolution & Creation

[icant]

No. There was not a time when the universe did not exist and a later time when the universe began to exist. You mustn't think of the universe as having a beginning in time. Time itself, or, rather space-time, is as much an integral part of the universe as mass-energy, so the universe has existed for the whole of time. I know that this is difficult to understand, but that is in the nature of physics under the extreme conditions of the Big Bang.

I don't have a clue to what space time is. Can you explain it.
Space is an empty volume that energy, matter, or mass can occupy .
But what is time that makes it a part of the universe?

I know there is existence as I existence. In existence there are events that occur. There is duration between events which can be measured with time.

What else can time do?

Enjoy,

 

[ppp]

I don't have a clue to what space time is.

So you have a vary strong opinion on the big bang theory without having read up on the big bang theory well enough to understand the basic terminology used in any discussion about the big bang

 

[icant]

Time is a function of the expansion of the universe. Time has no meaning outside of those bounds.

What function does time provide?

Time is a concept of mankind that he figured out using base 12. Mankind has built clocks with a face with numbers on it, 1- 12 as the rotation of the earth in relation to the sun is close to 24 hours. So we have 12 hours of 60 minutes composed of 60 seconds. Mankind takes time to measure duration between events.

I have asked many what time Is with no satisfactory answer. Maybe someone can explain it to a numbskull like me.

Enjoy.

 

[icant]

So you have a vary strong opinion on the big bang theory without having read up on the big bang theory well enough to understand the basic terminology used in any discussion about the big bang

Seems like you don't know either you did not explain it.
Want to try again and explain space/time.
I know what space is and I know what time is. What I don't have a clue about something called space/time.

You care to explain what it is?

Enjoy,

 

[ppp]

You care to explain what it is?

Do you care to answer my question before demanding answers of your own?

 

[John53]

Seems like you don't know either you did not explain it.
Want to try again and explain space/time.
I know what space is and I know what time is. What I don't have a clue about something called space/time.

You care to explain what it is?

Enjoy,

Want to answer the question I asked of you a few days back?

What is the definition of "kind"? Were you using it to describe species, genus, family, order, class, phylum, kingdom? Or maybe something else?

 

[YoursTrue]

The flu shots change year to year because viruses, like all life forms, can and do mutate.

You bring up (to me) an interesting subject. Are Viruses Alive?
I read that "Viruses are microorganisms of genetic material that are dependent on living organisms as hosts. Once they infect, or take over, a host, they hijack the host cell to reproduce. Viruses have some of the features of a living entity in that they can reproduce and mutate. However, they can’t move on their own or survive outside of a host body." I go no further than to say that is fascinating.

 

[Pogo]

There’s a super easy cure for this problem.

Then why isn't she on your ig list?
Or is the cure less enjoyable than the disease?"

 

[Valjean]

Seems like you don't know either you did not explain it.
Want to try again and explain space/time.
I know what space is and I know what time is. What I don't have a clue about something called space/time.

You care to explain what it is?

Enjoy,

Spacetime is one of the basic concepts of physics, reflecting the physical equivalence of space and time, as a single entity.

Reality is nothing like what we perceive with our senses. Our brains construct simplified, abstract, imaginary worlds; illusionary realities like video games.

Space and time seem different things from the perspective of everyday, human experience, but like so many things, appearances and commonsense are deceptive. They're essentially the same thing, observed from different perspectives. Space and time, gravity and acceleration, matter and energy -- same-same.

Space-time | Definition & Facts | Britannica

Space-time, in physical science, single concept that recognizes the union of space and time, first proposed by the mathematician Hermann Minkowski in 1908 as a way to reformulate Albert Einstein’s special theory of relativity (1905). Learn more about space-time in this article.

www.britannica.com

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Let's see if you managed to learn something after 3 years worth of repeating the same point over and over and over again.


Try and answer these couple of questions about the statement "finches remain finches" without looking it up:

1. does the statement support or contradict evolution theory?
2a. if it supports the theory, why does it support it?
2b. if it contradicts the theory, why does it contradict it?


Give it your best shot.
I don't require an essay. 10-20 words would suffice to answer.

@YoursTrue Friendly reminder to answer these 2 simple questions about the statement "finches remain finches"

1. does the statement support or contradict evolution theory?
2a. if it supports the theory, why does it support it?
2b. if it contradicts the theory, why does it contradict it?

 

[Audie]

Then why isn't she on your ig list?
Or is the cure less enjoyable than the disease?"

Does ya see me carrying on debate with said personage.

 

[Pogo]

You bring up (to me) an interesting subject. Are Viruses Alive?
I read that "Viruses are microorganisms of genetic material that are dependent on living organisms as hosts. Once they infect, or take over, a host, they hijack the host cell to reproduce. Viruses have some of the features of a living entity in that they can reproduce and mutate. However, they can’t move on their own or survive outside of a host body." I go no further than to say that is fascinating.

Well if the definition is replicating biological entities with DNA/RNA instructions like us, then what do you think?

 

[icant]

So you have a vary strong opinion on the big bang theory without having read up on the big bang theory well enough to understand the basic terminology used in any discussion about the big bang

I still don't know what space time is as no one has ever been articulate it enough to explain it and most have never tried.

I do know what space is. It is a place where energy, matter, and mass can reside in and move in an out of.
I also know that time is what is used to measure duration between events in existence.

But I still do not know what space/time is. Do you care to care to explain it.

But to answer your question I may understand the BBT a litter better than you think I do. In a debate such as this several years ago I had the professor of Physics at Cambridge tell me the BBT was not sufficient and there needed to be a better theory.

I think the BBT is so full of holes that have been tried to be patched for so many years had it been any other theory it would have been jettisoned a long time ago.

Enjoy,

 

[Subduction Zone]

I still don't know what space time is as no one has ever been articulate it enough to explain it and most have never tried.

I do know what space is. It is a place where energy, matter, and mass can reside in and move in an out of.
I also know that time is what is used to measure duration between events in existence.

But I still do not know what space/time is. Do you care to care to explain it.

But to answer your question I may understand the BBT a litter better than you think I do. In a debate such as this several years ago I had the professor of Physics at Cambridge tell me the BBT was not sufficient and there needed to be a better theory.

I think the BBT is so full of holes that have been tried to be patched for so many years had it been any other theory it would have been jettisoned a long time ago.

Enjoy,

The professor probably did not say that it was insufficient, he would have said that it is incomplete. The theory does not answer all of the questions that scientists have. But of course that does not mean that it is wrong. All of the evidence indicates that it is correct even if there are unanswered questions.

 

[gnostic]

Creation and Evolution are the same thing are they not?

No.

As the artist is creating his work is it not evolving and as it is evolving is it not also being created?

Why do people use irrelevant analogy?

 

[gnostic]

Evolution is to take an absence of life and create a living something.

No. You’re talking more about Abiogenesis.

Evolution isn’t about the origin of first or earliest living organisms. That’s again, is Abiogenesis.

Evolution required life already existing. Evolution is about changes, the biodiversity of the species. It required ancestors to passed on physical or genetic traits from generation to generation, to descendants,

Evolution cannot have no ancestors.

edit note: I have to correct the last line, from "can" to "cannot". I didn't notice the iPad autocorrect have chosen the wrong word.

 

[Argentbear]

I don't have a clue to what space time is. Can you explain it.

If you really cared you could take two minutes and find out for yourself

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Thus far, Walt seems friendly, reasonable and willing to learn, and I'm retired with time on my hands. Explaining basic principles of evolution or biology should help exercise my mind and keep me from going senile

I like a challenge

You both seem to understand that you are unlikely to teach science to creationists, and that there has to be other reasons to participate in these discussions. For me, I enjoy and benefit reading the posts of critical thinkers with some level of expertise somewhere, from researching and writing posts myself, and from observing the faith-based thinker's habits and patterns of thought. I liken it to a university course complete with lecture, homework, and lab respectively.

3 years worth of pointing out THE EXACT SAME ERROR over and over and over and over again. And still you continue to insist on being wrong on that single point. I fully expect you to repeat that same error in this thread at some point.

And she is a rare example of a creationist who seems sincerely interested in learning.

I have no knowledge on evolution at all, could you please explain how the first breathing living species survives its first hour? How are lungs in the first mother of the first species formed in the evolutionary process? ... I am here trying to make sense of all this information.

You, too.

Not to dishearten you, but in my experience, your chance of learning this material starting from ground zero well along in years is very low however sincere you are. Would that it were otherwise, but after years of message boarding, I just don't see creationists learning anything. As TagliatelliMonster noted, the same ones are still making the same errors.

There's more to know than just facts, and a good understanding of any science begins with the fundamentals and builds on that, which occurs over years in minds that know how to study and learn - another acquired skill, as is critical thinking.

You really need it all to become knowledgeable in any academic discipline. What you'll find is that as you read facts about evolution or any other academic subject is that the ideas won't accumulate or form an intellectual edifice as they would if you had a framework or scaffolding of basic understanding to hang them on.

And that's fine. The knowledge wouldn't be useful to you. You've gotten this far not having it. Have fun trying, and maybe you can do better than what I described, but you shouldn't be surprised to find that what you read here doesn't really change your understanding of anything as seems to be the case with most RFers asking about basic scientific information.

OK 3 pieces of evidence. I got no problem with a cosmic fireball.
I got no problem that the universe is expanding.
I got no problem with a glow from a very bright period of light in the past.
I got no problem with the galaxies receding away from us.

But none of those tell us where that little thingamabob came from or where it collected the energy and mass required to build this most magnificent universe in which we live. It is the most precision entity that has ever been built.

None of those things tell us how life formed on earth when there was no life.

Agreed, but what's your purpose for saying so? Science still has much to learn, and some questions likely will never be answered definitively.

The usual reason we see comments like that is to make an implied ignorantiam argument, that is, if science can't answer the question, there must be a god.

I don't have enough faith to believe that little pinpoint sized universe could stretch to be 93 billion light years in diameter which is the seen universe, and it is thought to be 7 trillion light years in diameter when you include what we can't see yet.

So, no I don't have that much faith.

Sure you do. If you can believe any particular idea by faith, you can believe any other idea by faith as well. Faith requires no effort. It is unexamined belief, which is so easy that children with rudimentary language and intellectual skills can do it. In fact, it requires education and training to learn to avoid it.

What you're doing is trying to attach a word from your world to mine. Others like to refer to science or humanism as religions, or respect for them as worship.

you can believe anything you desire to believe

There you go. See how easy it was for you to say that. All one need do to believe by faith is choose to do so.

I still don't know what space time is as no one has ever been articulate it enough to explain it

It's not an issue of others not being articulate. These people are all pretty articulate. If you want to learn material like this, as I told anther poster above, you'll need to make a concerted effort over years. You can start by reading a few of these books. Remember, your education is YOUR responsibility, not that of the teachers.

I think the BBT is so full of holes that have been tried to be patched for so many years had it been any other theory it would have been jettisoned a long time ago.

You probably don't know the theory. If you did, you would know why the theory hasn't been jettisoned.

 

[Argentbear]

What function does time provide?

Time is a concept of mankind that he figured out using base 12. Mankind has built clocks with a face with numbers on it, 1- 12 as the rotation of the earth in relation to the sun is close to 24 hours. So we have 12 hours of 60 minutes composed of 60 seconds. Mankind takes time to measure duration between events.

I have asked many what time Is with no satisfactory answer. Maybe someone can explain it to a numbskull like me.

Enjoy.

If you are purposefully conflating the measurement of a phenomena with the phenomena itself then you will never get your "satisfactory answer" which I am beginning to beleive is your goal.

 

[YoursTrue]

Spacetime is one of the basic concepts of physics, reflecting the physical equivalence of space and time, as a single entity.

Reality is nothing like what we perceive with our senses. Our brains construct simplified, abstract, imaginary worlds; illusionary realities like video games.

Space and time seem different things from the perspective of everyday, human experience, but like so many things, appearances and commonsense are deceptive. They're essentially the same thing, observed from different perspectives. Space and time, gravity and acceleration, matter and energy -- same-same.

Space-time | Definition & Facts | Britannica

Space-time, in physical science, single concept that recognizes the union of space and time, first proposed by the mathematician Hermann Minkowski in 1908 as a way to reformulate Albert Einstein’s special theory of relativity (1905). Learn more about space-time in this article.

www.britannica.com

Not referring to spacetime but thinking Darwin knew there are eyes but didn't know how they worked.