On Evolution & Creation

[metis]

From what I see here on these forums, few if any here who embrace the theory of evolution can answer questions from those who do not believe it, except to call those who do not accept the theory as taught by evolutionists ignorant and the like.

And you honestly believe this? What do you think many of us have been doing? "Evolution" is just plain old common sense as all mat4rial things appear to change over time, and d.n.a. and genes are material things.

Back to the beginning, here: Evolution - Wikipedia [note there are links to many studies on this, so maybe start reading some of them at the least.

 

[John53]

Just to say -- no offense meant and sorry if anyone takes offense, From what I see here on these forums, few if any here who embrace the theory of evolution can answer questions from those who do not believe it, except to call those who do not accept the theory as taught by evolutionists ignorant and the like.

Fair enough. Why don't you lead by example and show us how we should answer questions. I'll throw a few at you that you've never answered when I've asked you.

1. Define what "kind" means when used in the bible as an animal grouping? (@icant didn't bother answering this one for me yesterday)
2. What relevance is there in constantly repeating "monkeys haven't invented telescopes? (I've asked you this several times and you've never responded)

I have many more but I'll start with those 2. Here's your chance to teach us.

 

[YoursTrue]

And you honestly believe this? What do you think many of us have been doing? "Evolution" is just plain old common sense as all mat4rial things appear to change over time, and d.n.a. and genes are material things.

Back to the beginning, here: Evolution - Wikipedia [note there are links to many studies on this, so maybe start reading some of them at the least.

You may and can believe it's "just common sense." I do not go along with the theory. Be that as it may, have a good day. If I take anybody's suggestion to read explanations, unless that person is willing to go through it with me and answer questions, I refrain. soooo....(have a nice day)

 

[metis]

You may and can believe it's "just common sense." I do not go along with the theory. Be that as it may, have a good day. If I take anybody's suggestion to read explanations, unless that person is willing to go through it with me and answer questions, I refrain. soooo....(have a nice day)

This is why I left the fundamentalist Protestant church of my youth-- namely its "science be damned" approach. Fortunately, most Protestants and Catholics can and do accept the basic ToE as long as it's assumed God was behind it all.

 

[Valjean]

Just to say -- no offense meant and sorry if anyone takes offense, From what I see here on these forums, few if any here who embrace the theory of evolution can answer questions from those who do not believe it, except to call those who do not accept the theory as taught by evolutionists ignorant and the like.

What questions? Are they actual questions about evolution, or just nitpicking jabs at it, platforms for faith-signalling quotations, or questions presupposing non-facts or based on flawed premises?

If questions make sense they're answerable. But most require clarifications or corrections before they can be addressed. Something like: "Are you still cheating on your wife?" cannot be answered directly without clarification first.

The usual questions I hear involve misunderstandings that have been addressed dozens of times already, or logical fallacies that render the question moot.

 

[Valjean]

I realize what the world of scientists say about this in general which is that somehow species interbred and/or had changes in their organisms continued, however, and it's a big however I think, finches remain finches. Sometimes different "species" of finches apparently can interbreed but from what I learn, mostly with deformities, not well in interbreeding bird species, from what I understand.

Finches remain finches for x number of generations, but with enough generations; enough accumulation of small change, the lineages become something not recognizable as an examples of the initial specimen.
Why is this hard to understand?

https://ourplnt.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/red-to-blue-micro-macro-evolution.webp

 

[Pogo]

Just to say -- no offense meant and sorry if anyone takes offense, From what I see here on these forums, few if any here who embrace the theory of evolution can answer questions from those who do not believe it, except to call those who do not accept the theory as taught by evolutionists ignorant and the like.

It is not that we won't answer questions for non-believers, we just are tired of answering questions for people who refuse to have the decency to actually think about the answers and just ask another question they have no intention of thinking about either, rinse, repeat.

 

[Pogo]

Finches remain finches for x number of generations, but with enough generations; enough accumulation of small change, the lineages become something not recognizable as an examples of the initial specimen.
Why is this hard to understand?

https://ourplnt.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/red-to-blue-micro-macro-evolution.webp

but they are still finches just are we are still mammals.

 

[YoursTrue]

This is why I left the fundamentalist Protestant church of my youth-- namely its "science be damned" approach. Fortunately, most Protestants and Catholics can and do accept the basic ToE as long as it's assumed God was behind it all.

I understand. However, perhaps at this point I should ask for a definition of science. I mean I appreciate let's say the investigations it took for scientists to come up with a formula for a vaccine to prevent polio and other debilitating diseases.

 

[John53]

I understand. However, perhaps at this point I should ask for a definition of science. I mean I appreciate let's say the investigations it took for scientists to come up with a formula for a vaccine to prevent polio and other debilitating diseases.

I'm assuming no response is the correct way to answer questions due to your no response to my post #762.

Got it, I'm on my way to being a better person just like you.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But there was no modern man on earth until 6,000 to 12,000 years ago.

Modern homo sapiens has been around for at least 150.000 years, dude

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

How many of those finches were not FINCHES?

If finches produced non-finches, evolution would be disproven.
Speciation is a vertical process. It results in SUB-species. Meaning the "new" species still belongs to the same group as its ancestors.
It's pretty much a law in evolutionary biology: species can never outgrow their ancestry.

This is why homo sapiens remain apes, mammals, tetrapods, chordates, eukaryotes,...

Eukaryotes will produce more eukaryotes and sub-species thereof.
Chordates will produce more chordates and sub-species thereof.
Tetrapods will produce more tetrapods and sub-species thereof.
Mammals will produce more mammals and sub-species thereof.
Etc.

In evolution, cats will not evolve into dogs.
In evolution, species don't jump branches.
The only branch out from the same roots. Meaning that they will never outgrow their own ancestry.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Just to say -- no offense meant and sorry if anyone takes offense, From what I see here on these forums, few if any here who embrace the theory of evolution can answer questions from those who do not believe it, except to call those who do not accept the theory as taught by evolutionists ignorant and the like.

Perhaps the problem is that you are too stubborn to properly read the answers given.

If you disagree, link us to a question which hasn't properly been answered.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Does it really surprise you that people aren't jumping up and down to spend time and energy to supposedly help you understand evolutionary biology?

I mean...... how many times have you repeated the same mistake which has been corrected on a nearly weekly basis ever since June 2021? You know which mistake I'm talking about.

3 years worth of pointing out THE EXACT SAME ERROR over and over and over and over again. And still you continue to insist on being wrong on that single point. I fully expect you to repeat that same error in this thread at some point.

If you can't even manage to have the courage to correct yourself on such a simple single thing, why on earth would you expect people to be willing to spend time and energy teaching you about things a lot more complex then that?

By insisting on being wrong on that single simple thing, you have shown time and again for the past years that you are of bad faith and are NOT interested in learning AT ALL.

That was post #737

Here's @YoursTrue post #760:

I realize what the world of scientists say about this in general which is that somehow species interbred and/or had changes in their organisms continued, however, and it's a big however I think, finches remain finches. Sometimes different "species" of finches apparently can interbreed but from what I learn, mostly with deformities, not well in interbreeding bird species, from what I understand.

Here's my post from June 2021, responding to @YoursTrue post where it is stated that "gorillas remain gorillas"

There is no rest. That is true.
Eukaryotes remain eukaryotes.
Vertebrates remain vertebrates.
Tetrapods remain tetrapods.
Mammals remain mammals.
Primates remain primates.
Homo sapiens remain homo sapiens.

Homo sapiens are still primates, mammals, tetrapods, vertebrates and eukaryotes.
And if homo sapiens splits and speciates further, those species will be subspecies of homo sapiens. So they too would still be homo sapiens.

Humans will not be evolving into non-humans of any kind.



Birds ARE dinosaurs.
Just like humans are mammals.

It is impossible to come up with a definition for "dinosaur" which encompasses all dinosaurs yet excludes birds, without arbitrarily adding "...but not birds".

List the anatomical properties of a dinosaur.
Go over the list with a bunch of birds.
You'll have to check each box.

I rest my case.

 

[YoursTrue]

Fair enough. Why don't you lead by example and show us how we should answer questions. I'll throw a few at you that you've never answered when I've asked you.

1. Define what "kind" means when used in the bible as an animal grouping? (@icant didn't bother answering this one for me yesterday)
2. What relevance is there in constantly repeating "monkeys haven't invented telescopes? (I've asked you this several times and you've never responded)

I have many more but I'll start with those 2. Here's your chance to teach us.

You are among those believing in the theory of evolution; I no longer do. Therefore it would be better if you, or those who are also advocates of the science to detail and explain their position. Thank you.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

You are among those believing in the theory of evolution; I no longer do. Therefore it would be better if you, or those who are also advocates of the science to detail and explain their position. Thank you.

You forgot to answer the 2 questions.

Sounds like you are one those people who get a kick out of falsely accusing others of things you yourself are guilty of.

I also note that you are doing your outmost best to avoid answering / ignoring my posts addressed to you, where I point out your clear black on white unwillingness to learn from your mistakes. Where I point out how you INSIST on making the same mistake over and over again. In the post right above yours, I even quote several posts where I literally PREDICTED that you would once again make the same mistake (that you had corrected on a near weekly basis for the past 3 years) in this very thread. Only to see you do exactly that no more then 23 posts later.

What's that about?

Do you really think that when witnessing such stubborn behavior, we take you seriously when you say you want to learn, that you are actually interested in these explanations you pretend to ask for, that you will read these explanations with attention and in good faith when they are given and that it is NOT a complete and utter waste of our valuable time to provide you with these explanations?


Is this an example of this good christian character we keep hearing about?

I think that at this point, it might be a good time for you to do some reflecting and ask yourself if this is really the way you wish to present yourself to the public.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You forgot to answer the 2 questions.

Sounds like you are one those people who get a kick out of falsely accusing others of things you yourself are guilty of.

Not only failing to answer reasonable questions, but again, an another attempt to shift the burden of proof.

Logical fallacies and ignorance seems to be the basis for the entire argument against the theory of evolution.

 

[YoursTrue]

You forgot to answer the 2 questions.

Sounds like you are one those people who get a kick out of falsely accusing others of things you yourself are guilty of.

I also note that you are doing your outmost best to avoid answering / ignoring my posts addressed to you, where I point out your clear black on white unwillingness to learn from your mistakes. Where I point out how you INSIST on making the same mistake over and over again. In the post right above yours, I even quote several posts where I literally PREDICTED that you would once again make the same mistake (that you had corrected on a near weekly basis for the past 3 years) in this very thread. Only to see you do exactly that no more then 23 posts later.

What's that about?

Do you really think that when witnessing such stubborn behavior, we take you seriously when you say you want to learn, that you are actually interested in these explanations you pretend to ask for, that you will read these explanations with attention and in good faith when they are given and that it is NOT a complete and utter waste of our valuable time to provide you with these explanations?


Is this an example of this good christian character we keep hearing about?

I think that at this point, it might be a good time for you to do some reflecting and ask yourself if this is really the way you wish to present yourself to the public.

Sorry but I can't read every post with questions or information.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Sorry but I can't read every post with questions or information.

Still not a single comment on the point I keep bringing up.

Let's have a meme then

 

[YoursTrue]

Still not a single comment on the point I keep bringing up.

Let's have a meme then

View attachment 97784

I will try to follow but can't say I understand every point others may bring up.