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On the merits of animal sacrifice

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
This maybe unorthodox than all the opinions here; and, I don't agree with animal sacrifice for religious purposes.

To compare. When we think of pigs etc in a slaughter house, do we associate this with our religious beliefs? Is it helping our spiritual well-being? (Not the eating of it but the actual slaughter) Some parts of the world, as not to generalize, just see animals as food. However, I see animals as life. So, to eat an animal is to eat a sacred being's life. I always say we (humans) are not special; we're not. We kill to survive. That is the purpose of the slaughter.

Religion and religious acts are not "just to slaughter." It isn't impersonal. These are personal actions and beliefs that a person affiliates him or herself with. So when that person slaughters a chicken, they are slaughtering it to obtain the life force from it (or however described) and in other religions a physical display of sacrifice. Whether or not it is ate later is not the point. "That's like saying, well. It's alright to kill Joe because he's going to the death house anyway" type of thing.

Religious acts of animal sacrifice isn't done for survival. People can actually live without sacrificing animals. So, I can't excuse "Joe" just because he will be killed anyway.

I see it as, if I were to slaughter an animal for religious purposes, I am taking the life from that animal and I am making it personal. I am joining my morals to that act of killing. That is wrong. It is no longer survival as in nourishment. I can live without meat. It's making that act of killing a part of who I am. That, in my view, is wrong.

There is a difference.

I'd never work in a slaughter house. It's just against all my principles of killing. Animals kill to survive. We package meat. Add preservatives. Try to make things taste delicious to gather more money rather than exchange food as money among a community to sustain each other without needing "collateral" as you can see it becomes greed.

:fallenleaf:

I understand the need to slaughter animals for people to eat. I agree, it wouldn't make a difference if it were a pig or a dog regardless of how we culturally relate to them. I don't care for killing; and, I understand why in this case.

I do see the difference because we do not personalize the pigs we slaughter for food. So, it is seen as "alright" in many people's books. Like dogs as social animals, religions that have animal sacrifice have a different way of seeing the pigs and chickens they kill.

Killing for religious purposes becomes a moral combination between killing; and, that I disagree with whether or not the community eats the food afterward. This I disagree with.

That is why there is a difference between one and another. It's a big difference.

No one actually has to eat meat to survive. I've become mostly vegetarian lately and I've felt better because I simply changed what I've been eating. I've every few days at most have some chicken or fish but it's not really necessary. We are omnivores and can eat pretty much anything but that doesn't mean we have to eat everything. So we actually have more flexibility in diet than many pro meat eaters would say.

For Christ sake, leave the animals alone, sacrifice yourself.

Why not both? No but really I'm not endorsing or condemning animal sacrifice for the purposes of this thread.
 

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
What separates sacrificing a horse or dog from sacrificing a human -- as long as it's done humanely?

I see a worrisome devaluation of life here; living creatures as commodities, ours to use as we see fit.
Good point. I suspect the practice arose as a demonstration, to some invisible power, of commitment; or to impress others in the community.
The more costly the sacrifice the more impressed the power being importuned will be, and the more likely it will be to act favorably toward you, or, alternately, the more your community will be impressed and the greater your status will be.

Not exactly, they are used for a blessing to humanity, but do not treat them inhumane and treat them humane with certain.

:)
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
No one actually has to eat meat to survive. I've become mostly vegetarian lately and I've felt better because I simply changed what I've been eating. I've every few days at most have some chicken or fish but it's not really necessary. We are omnivores and can eat pretty much anything but that doesn't mean we have to eat everything. So we actually have more flexibility in diet than many pro meat eaters would say.



Why not both? No but really I'm not endorsing or condemning animal sacrifice for the purposes of this thread.

I was saying more "I can live without meat. It's making that act of killing a part of who I am. That, in my view, is wrong." I don't want to eat meat and can live without it. I just grown into the habit and will change it. I just feel religious sacrifice is wrong because the killing becomes someone's morals rather than a necessity for food.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Not exactly, they are used for a blessing to humanity, but do not treat them inhumane and treat them humane with certain.:)
Sometimes they're treated humanely, other times the 'sacrifice' is more industrial. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish from an abattoir. Occasionally it comes to resemble an orgy of death. http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rifice-nepal-festival-protests-gadhimai-hindu
Nothing. If someone wants to be a human sacrifice, let them.
Agreed, and, to be consistent, the same need for consent would apply to animals, too.
 

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Sometimes they're treated humanely, other times the 'sacrifice' is more industrial. Sometimes it's hard to distinguish from an abattoir. Occasionally it comes to resemble an orgy of death. http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...rifice-nepal-festival-protests-gadhimai-hindu
Agreed, and, to be consistent, the same need for consent would apply to animals, too.

Agreed. . .

My point is the right way is the humane way. Creation should not only be regarded equal but treated as well.

:)
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
It is painful for the animal and it is painful for a witness, but all that does not show up when it is on a plate.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Agreed, and, to be consistent, the same need for consent would apply to animals, too.
I wish we could, but sadly we're not at that level of communication with non-human species. Plants don't consent to being killed, either. In fact, I only brought up consent in terms of humans because of the way human society currently is. If I left that out, it would call into question the whole concept of murder under the law and I'm not prepared to argue that. Lol.

Then again, humans are already hypocritical since we allow the killing of humans against their will under certain circumstances (i.e. it's alright to kill humans when the state has granted you the privilege).
 

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
I think they're more often used to induce some deity to help your group, or, to impress the neighbors.

I disagree.

More often, if you are to say Islam is an example of this then you are misunderstood brother.

If not, then i still object it being a majority use for deity to help your group as i believe it would, lol.

:)
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Agreed. . .

My point is the right way is the humane way. Creation should not only be regarded equal but treated as well.:)
I think there's more to it than just eschewing outright cruelty. The theft of a sentient being's most valuable possession should be considered, as well.

Thou shalt not steal.
 

dawny0826

Mother Heathen
Many accept industry mass farming, so why not a little bit of animal sacrifice?

Is it really so bad to kill an animal in the name of religion? What if you eat it? What if you don't and instead cremate it? What separates killing and eating a pig from killing and eating a cat or dog?

What separates sacrificing something like a goat or sheep from sacrificing a horse or a dog? Either consumed or not? If all is done humanely as possible and legally what's the big deal?

Can meat eaters unhypocritically condemn ritual sacrifice either with or without eating meat afterwards?

I've been debating the merits of animal sacrifice for a while now. It's been practiced for thousands of years and only recently have we had issues with it as the Christians were afraid of it as it seemed to "pagan" to them but hey even the Jews did it too, and I think parts of Islam do as well. But I'd think we would be past these hang ups since we as a society are largely okay with mass animal farming.

So what's the big deal? What's wrong with a little bit of animal sacrifice? Surely it isn't nearly as bad as our meat industries and could actually be a more humane way of handling it as many raise what they kill and eat. And even if they don't, individual care is often better than mass care.

I have no qualms with animals who are not of the companion and livestock variety being humanely killed for practical use.

The images that I've seen of animal sacrifice have hardly appeared to be humane or practical, though.

Intention matters, in my opinion.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I notice that people try to compare humans to animals, saying there is no line. Yet when it comes to eating meat, unlike other omnivorous animals we should refrain from doing so, thus drawing a line.

But you can't have it both ways.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I notice that people try to compare humans to animals, saying there is no line. Yet when it comes to eating meat, unlike other omnivorous animals we should refrain from doing so, thus drawing a line.

But you can't have it both ways.
Neither can we choose animals as role models.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
But other animals aren't moral agents.
Why do you keep saying that when science shows otherwise?

http://www.livescience.com/24802-animals-have-morals-book.html
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/041612.html
http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/morality_animals

Morality is basically just an evolutionary adaptation that is conducive to the survival of species and to facilitate the functioning of a group. If a species lives in a group, they have to develop ways to interact with each other to create and maintain order and, therefore, to survive. They have to learn or figure out how to treat each other (i.e. modify and/or restrain certain behaviors). Humans aren't special in that regard. That's the basic building block of all human societies. The only way we're all that different is in our psychological complexity, really, and even that's rather arguable.

I think you're just using an arbitrary measure to uphold a sort of speciesism.
 
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Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What is wrong with that? If it is for food, but what they are doing like it is a ritual and putting blood on wall then no.

:)

Is there something wrong with putting blood on the wall? How is it different then in the slaughter house? The animal will see no difference.
 
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