One of my problems with Islam

[Union]

Perfect diagnosis union

so illykitty, kick off the satan and make it 100% pure

is that all you doubt about islam?

Good suggestion for her ..

 

[dendrophilous]

Would you mind if I asked my own question here? I don't want to hijack your post.

 

[illykitty]

Would you mind if I asked my own question here? I don't want to hijack your post.

Do ask, if it's related to the topic. I already said on the first page, in a reply if it's on topic, then ask away.

What is spiritual punishment ?

Can you explain How to punish the spirit ?

Sorry, I didn't reply earlier, I was trying to find an answer. To be honest, I'm not sure I can explain this or if I understand this concept well. I just know that it's how some people view hell.

The best I can do is describe it as remoteness from God, that causes "pain" to the soul. Perhaps because God made the souls, so by being far from its creator, it's not receiving its light, love, etc? I don't know!

---

In any case, while I might not like the thought of Hell, I believe in Allah's justice. It would be unjust if nothing happened to really bad people.

I also believe in his mercy. In any case, only Allah knows what happens. I'm just a mortal trying to make sense of things.

 

[dendrophilous]

Why is the only unforgivable sin disbelief? Why is believing important enough to Allah that he would never forgive you if you rejected him or his specific religion? There are so many religions that many people feel very strongly about, and just like Islam they believe in a hell you're damned to if you don't believe... why is believing so important? Why would rejecting Islam damn you but killing a fellow might not?

 

[Union]

Why is the only unforgivable sin disbelief? Why is believing important enough to Allah that he would never forgive you if you rejected him or his specific religion? There are so many religions that many people feel very strongly about, and just like Islam they believe in a hell you're damned to if you don't believe... why is believing so important? Why would rejecting Islam damn you but killing a fellow might not?

If I understand what is running in your mind , i firstly may say that you must not mix the law of Islam as described in Qur'an with what the Shia and Sunni (99% of Muslim Body) practiced . These are in mostly of the cases two different things .

They mostly follow what their own Hadith books say (e.g., Bukhari-Sunni & Al-Kafi-Shia) and not the Qur'an .

Having said that killing is also a grave sin in Islam . Hence nobody will say 'ok' to it at all . And disbelieving GOD or associating HIM with many partners is obviously an unpardonable sin in Islam . Islam means submission hence anybody from any religion can submit to GOD alone , s/he doesn't need to be a Shia or a Sunni .

 

[dendrophilous]

But why is partnering him with others so awful? I have many friends of many different faiths, including pagans and Hindus... their many gods are an expression of wonder. I also have many atheist friends. I am loving the religion and the Qur'an is a very powerful text that I admire, but I can't come to stomach the idea that if I believed the Qur'an and Islam that I would believe these friends would be going to hell simply because they find awe in the world, like I do, but express it in another way. Is there any explanation for this? Are there any other interpretations?

 

[Pastek]

Because as God created everything, you can't worship his own creation instead of Him, He is the One who gaves us life.
Also this is clear in the Quran that it's the plan of the devil to lead us astray.
So if you give partners to God, you are following the devil which is an enemy of us and of God.

but I can't come to stomach the idea that if I believed the Qur'an and Islam that I would believe these friends would be going to hell simply because they find awe in the world, like I do, but express it in another way.

In Islam you are responsable of yourself. If you prefer people to God, it's your own decision.
When we will meet God, there will be no friend, no brother, no parents, no children, no idols.
It's you and God and nobody will help you.

If you love your friends, you can invite them to the religion of God and if they are good people and only worship God they have nothing to fear about. Islam is very simple.

 

[J2hapydna]

But why is partnering him with others so awful? I have many friends of many different faiths, including pagans and Hindus... their many gods are an expression of wonder. I also have many atheist friends. I am loving the religion and the Qur'an is a very powerful text that I admire, but I can't come to stomach the idea that if I believed the Qur'an and Islam that I would believe these friends would be going to hell simply because they find awe in the world, like I do, but express it in another way. Is there any explanation for this? Are there any other interpretations?

You have to keep in mind that most of these verses are addressing Arabs who are either the descendants of Abraham thru Ishmael, Isaac thru Esau or Israelites who had left Judaism / Christianity and Christians and Jews, who were all very familiar with what their father Abraham had preached. So, that is the context in which things are sometimes being discussed in the Quran.

As far as the fate of the Hindus and other nations is concerned, once the Jews, Christians and Arabs sort out what their god was telling them, then one can expect a merciful god to judge the Hindus. In other words if these clowns who shared an ancestor a few thousand years ago cant get their story straight today, how can a merciful god blame Hindus for not understanding what they are saying?

In the meantime the Quran says that every nation was given a different law and god will tell us why we differed when we meet him, in the meantime we should try our best to out do each other in virtue as if we were in a race. So, it is not for people of one nation to judge another. The Hindus have their own understanding of when they worship one and when they worship many and they understand it in their own terms.

I should mention that the Quran wants us to have 100% faith not 100% belief. These are two different things. To have belief one needs proof. For example when we push a certain thing it moves in the direction of that push. So we can say we believe when we push things they move in that direction by verifying it. To have faith is to be amazed by the mystery and the existence of the supernatural. It is more of a feeling based on wonder thru inferences rather than deduction. Those who are unable to see this difference between faith and belief are arrogant and lack humility. The Quran chastises those who are arrogant and lack humility.

Finally there is the example of Moses who actually commits murder. He also expresses doubt by asking to see Him. Then there is an example of him following Khidr and questioning and again doubting. So everything in the Quran has to be understood in context.

quran - Why Khidr killed a boy who had not committed any sin? - Islam Stack Exchange

 

[Union]

But why is partnering him with others so awful? I have many friends of many different faiths, including pagans and Hindus... their many gods are an expression of wonder. I also have many atheist friends. I am loving the religion and the Qur'an is a very powerful text that I admire, but I can't come to stomach the idea that if I believed the Qur'an and Islam that I would believe these friends would be going to hell simply because they find awe in the world, like I do, but express it in another way. Is there any explanation for this? Are there any other interpretations?

I understand it very simply . My father gave me birth , fed me , nurtured me , raised me with my necessities etc.. Now all on a sudden I started saying that I have no father or I started claiming that every Tom , Dick and Harry are my fathers ....

This would be not only intolerable to my father but also an injustice to him .

Imagine this scenario with Almighty GOD . Hopefully you understand . Thanks .

 

[dynavert2012]

But why is partnering him with others so awful? I have many friends of many different faiths, including pagans and Hindus... their many gods are an expression of wonder. I also have many atheist friends. I am loving the religion and the Qur'an is a very powerful text that I admire, but I can't come to stomach the idea that if I believed the Qur'an and Islam that I would believe these friends would be going to hell simply because they find awe in the world, like I do, but express it in another way. Is there any explanation for this? Are there any other interpretations?

you already got valuable answers, when you read the quran carefully you will find that the first thing that any prophet was starting his message to his people by inviting his people to worship only one god, Noah, hud, saleh, Abraham,"[Mention] when he said to his father, "O my father, why do you worship that which does not hear and does not see and will not benefit you at all?" 19:42
even Joseph when he was in the prison he told his companions in the prison to worship only one god "O [my] two companions of prison, are separate lords better or Allah , the One, the Prevailing, You worship not besides Him except [mere] names you have named them, you and your fathers, for which Allah has sent down no authority. Legislation is not but for Allah . He has commanded that you worship not except Him. That is the correct religion, but most of the people do not know" 12:39-40
there's a hadith also explained it pretty with an example, Musnad Imam Ahmad 4:130 the prophet said "So, Yahya bin Zakariya called the Children of Israel to Bayt Al-Maqdis (Jerusalem), until they filled the Masjid. He sat on the balcony, thanked Allah and praised him and then said, `Allah ordered me to implement five commandments and that I should order you to adhere to them, The first is that you worship Allah alone and not associate anything with Him (in that worship). The example of this command is the example of a man who bought a servant from his money with paper or gold. The servant started to work for the master, but was paying the profits to another person. Who among you would like his servant to do that? Allah created you and sustains you. Therefore, worship Him alone and do not associate anything with Him" if you wish to read the remaining four commandments Sincere advice from Yahya ibn Zakariyya | Tulayhah

so the answer of the question "who among you would like his servant to do that? is surly NO, we are doing sins, he forgives, we are taking partners beside him, he sends prophets to us and kind people around us to remind us to repent and clear the religion to us, he's too merciful to us
if you have sons and you raise them up till they became men and then told you are not our father, you did nothing for us, you just was playing with your wife and we are the result, you have no favor upon us, will that please you? i don't think so

even if you looked outside islam, you will find it's the message of Jesus to his people John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

it's all about monotheism

i know how it's too miserable feeling to know that the fate of people around you is hell, but what you can do? it's all about invitation to them to islam, to do supplication to Allah for them to be guided to the right path, i know and feel how it's difficult, but 100% the right decision isn't to let your fate as their "in case you are not able to convince them"

 

[FearGod]

But why is partnering him with others so awful? I have many friends of many different faiths, including pagans and Hindus... their many gods are an expression of wonder. I also have many atheist friends. I am loving the religion and the Qur'an is a very powerful text that I admire, but I can't come to stomach the idea that if I believed the Qur'an and Islam that I would believe these friends would be going to hell simply because they find awe in the world, like I do, but express it in another way. Is there any explanation for this? Are there any other interpretations?

May i ask first why to think for more than one God or to worship other Gods that don't exist.

God says don't associate other Gods with me as there is no God but me.

So when one choose to disobey and invent other Gods in their minds then it is a challenge and disobey towards almighty God,it is kind of arrogance.

So again we don't have to blame God for what we want to be.

For example, you may say,Why you ask me to worship you only,i won't listen to you and i'll associate others with you and i don't care about the results.

Don't blame God then because actually you are a brave man.

 

[dendrophilous]

Thank you for the responses. I'll continue thinking about it.

 

[Union]

Thank you for the responses. I'll continue thinking about it.

You are welcome . Any question any time

 

[Virus]

I struggle with a few concepts, hell being my main issue at this time.

Say someone did the most horrible acts, think of someone like Hitler, I agree they shouldn't be allowed into heaven but I don't know what such people "deserve".

I just find the graphic descriptions of hell very disturbing and honestly sounds evil. Torture for eternity for some people? I'm not sure that's just? Seems pointless to do this to someone, it doesn't accomplish anything.

I'm conflicted on one hand I feel that some punishment should happen, because of my sense of justice. On the other hand, I wouldn't wish eternal punishment as described in the Qur'an on anyone.

Maybe I'm too soft. But I've always been very sensitive and highly empathic. You could say I don't have an issue with some people having punishment in the afterlife, but rather the method.

Or are there some alternative views I'm not considering, or something I missed? It's really hard.

Edited: I really hope this doesn't rub anyone wrong, I'm trying to get to the core of this and I often hold myself back asking questions because I really don't want to offend.

why only people like hitler? the greatest crime is to deny god his true identity, it's high treason, which every disbelieve does, god forgives all sin except those ascriving partners to him and not recognising him

 

[TashaN]

Because apart from being baptised, Christianity never was in my life and I'm not interested in it. There's already a thread about hell in general and most people are discussing Christianity in it. I'm sure there's other religions too describing some forms of hell, which you reincarnate into.

But anyway, I'm more concerned about the Islamic version because I'm trying to clear up things I have a problem with in Islam.

So if I chose to practise it again, I won't have these issues in the back of my mind bothering me. Maybe some others wonder about it too. It's not always smooth sailing when you decide to practise.

Anyway, if you have a question on topic, ask away here or make your eon thread. I don't mind.

You might want to read this great book.

Losing My Religion: A Call For Help: Jeffrey Lang: 9781590080276: Amazon.com: Books

[youtube]xMANKaX8khw[/youtube]
Dr. Jeffrey Lang- Losing my Religion: A Cry for Help (Part 1/10) - YouTube


Peace.

 

[illykitty]

why only people like hitler? the greatest crime is to deny god his true identity, it's high treason, which every disbelieve does, god forgives all sin except those ascriving partners to him and not recognising him

This can be a little confusing for some though. People would ask, why does Allah care?

Or they would say, it doesn't add or remove anything to Allah. If the whole world worshipped Allah, nothing would be added to him, if the whole world turned their backs, nothing would be removed?

Why is believing so important if you're a "good person"?

It doesn't answer a question to say "just believe" or "disbelieving is wrong". I know however sometimes these topics seem obvious for Muslims or maybe they never questioned anything. It's not so obvious for a non-Muslim.

However one thing I think, is disbelief isn't harmful to Allah, however it's harmful to the person. By denying God, you deny the source of all life. the one who gave everything. And in Islam, as I understand it, even small things (in our perspectives) can lead to great wrong. A small sin can lead to a bigger one... So disbelief can lead to wrong (according to Allah because obviously most humans are subjective).

Maybe it's one way of seeing things? Idk, I'm trying to reason here, not just accept something without thinking deeply about it.

 

[Rational_Mind]

This can be a little confusing for some though. People would ask, why does Allah care?

Or they would say, it doesn't add or remove anything to Allah. If the whole world worshipped Allah, nothing would be added to him, if the whole world turned their backs, nothing would be removed?

Why is believing so important if you're a "good person"?

It doesn't answer a question to say "just believe" or "disbelieving is wrong". I know however sometimes these topics seem obvious for Muslims or maybe they never questioned anything. It's not so obvious for a non-Muslim.

However one thing I think, is disbelief isn't harmful to Allah, however it's harmful to the person. By denying God, you deny the source of all life. the one who gave everything. And in Islam, as I understand it, even small things (in our perspectives) can lead to great wrong. A small sin can lead to a bigger one... So disbelief can lead to wrong (according to Allah because obviously most humans are subjective).

Maybe it's one way of seeing things? Idk, I'm trying to reason here, not just accept something without thinking deeply about it.

What do you understand as Shirk (Associating Partners with Allah)?

 

[fghi]

I struggle with a few concepts, hell being my main issue at this time.

Say someone did the most horrible acts, think of someone like Hitler, I agree they shouldn't be allowed into heaven but I don't know what such people "deserve".

I just find the graphic descriptions of hell very disturbing and honestly sounds evil. Torture for eternity for some people? I'm not sure that's just? Seems pointless to do this to someone, it doesn't accomplish anything.

I'm conflicted on one hand I feel that some punishment should happen, because of my sense of justice. On the other hand, I wouldn't wish eternal punishment as described in the Qur'an on anyone.

Maybe I'm too soft. But I've always been very sensitive and highly empathic. You could say I don't have an issue with some people having punishment in the afterlife, but rather the method.

Or are there some alternative views I'm not considering, or something I missed? It's really hard.

Edited: I really hope this doesn't rub anyone wrong, I'm trying to get to the core of this and I often hold myself back asking questions because I really don't want to offend.

When there is a place for eternal bliss ( paradise) , then its only fair to have a place for eternal punishment (hell) . Just like there are good deeds that can lead to eternal bliss , so its only fair that there are evil deeds that can lead to eternal punishment .

Evil punishment for evildoers , you reap what you sow , when one sow evil seed here on earth, then one will reap evil fruit in the hereafter , its one's own doing afterall ... that is justice .

Hell is not a place to learn a lesson or to change people like in prison but its an abode for the ultimate grievous suffering by being burned alive in fire .... so why fire in hell ? Because the pain and suffering one has to endure from getting burned in a fire anywhere on one's body is undeniable by anyone here on earth , just ask those who suffered from 3rd degree burns to understand the horrible pain of being burned alive , of course the fire in hell is much more hotter than on earth so the suffering will be much more greater .... so if one refuse to use one's reason to understand the warning from God then one got no one to blame but oneself later on in hell .

 

[fghi]

But why is partnering him with others so awful? I have many friends of many different faiths, including pagans and Hindus... their many gods are an expression of wonder. I also have many atheist friends. I am loving the religion and the Qur'an is a very powerful text that I admire, but I can't come to stomach the idea that if I believed the Qur'an and Islam that I would believe these friends would be going to hell simply because they find awe in the world, like I do, but express it in another way. Is there any explanation for this? Are there any other interpretations?

How would you feel if someone else steal your identity and then use it to commit all kind of fraud and falsehood against you ? Such an act is not awful in your opinion ? So if they misrepresent you fraudulently , are you ok with it ?

Those who refuse to accept God's true identity but instead they associate all kinds of partner to God are actually committing an identity theft to God . Its never ok to misrepresent someone or something with falsehood so why is it ok to do that to God ?

 

[Sees]

When there is a place for eternal bliss ( paradise) , then its only fair to have a place for eternal punishment ( hell) . Just like there are good deeds that can lead to eternal bliss , so its only fair that there are evil deeds that can lead to eternal punishment .

Evil punishment for evildoers , you reap what you sow , when one sow evil seed here on earth, then one will reap evil fruit in the hereafter , its one's own doing afterall ... that is justice .

Hell is not a place to learn a lesson or to change people like in prison.... its an abode for the ultimate grievous suffering by being burned alive in fire .... so why fire in hell ? Because the pain and suffering from getting burned by fire anywhere on one's body is undeniable by anyone here on earth , just ask those who suffered from 3rd degree burned to understand the horrible pain of being burned alive , of course the fire in hell is much more hotter than on earth .... so if one refuse to use one's reason to understand the warning from God then one got no one to blame but oneself later on in hell .

What age do you think a person should be before they are taught this?