One Problem with Capitalism?

[Revoltingest]

How is that any more ironic than you claiming to be LHP while embracing ideals that conflict with it?

If I may speak for St Frank, he favors an unconventional kind of socialism, one which is voluntary & without central
government enforcement. (I don't think it's possible, but I understand the dream.) It seems LHP compatible.

Did I get it right, SF?

 

[Alceste]

Again I ask you to try to present an argument, rather than just flinging insults.

I studied economics as part of a degree in politics and international relations. You ask me to back my suppositions, and yet all you have offered is insult.

As to the evidence that Capitalism is reaching it's natural limits, go to your nearest tent city. Or drive through the suburbs of Detroit.

Sorry bunyip, I had to trace this tangent back because I forgot what we're talking about. My first reply was uncalled for - must have been the gin and tonics doing my typing for me.

Anyway, people in grinding poverty are the easiest people to exploit. I can't see how this is evidence of a natural limit to capitalism. If anything, it's evidence that capitalists' tendency to squeeze producers into taking on ever increasing workloads with ever diminishing returns only strengthens their position.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Survival of the fittest. We all can't play on big boats or fly in private jets.

Thing is most young folks don't even aspire to.

We all can cash in on corporate greed. Buy stocks

 

[Father Heathen]

Survival of the fittest. We all can't play on big boats or fly in private jets.

So Paris Hilton is "fitter" than all of use here?

 

[Revoltingest]

So Paris Hilton is "fitter" than all of use here?

She chose better parents than I did!

Anyway, even in the most idealized version of capitalism, survival of the fittest is a large scale (ie, "emergent")
property. It is a statistical thingie, & not necessarily exhibited in every instance on the microeconomic scale.
It's at least as haphazard as that other similar stochastic process, evolution. There is no god guiding capitalism.
The lack of a god explains the success of Paris Hilton.

 

[dust1n]

Survival of the fittest. We all can't play on big boats or fly in private jets.

Thing is most young folks don't even aspire to.

We all can cash in on corporate greed. Buy stocks

Anyone who is not fit has no reason to respect an institutionalized version of the survival of the fittest.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Anyone who is not fit has no reason to respect an institutionalized version of the survival of the fittest.

Are you implying I am not fit?

 

[Father Heathen]

Are you implying I am not fit?

Uhh, I didn't read it that way at all.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

"The problem with capitalism is that it best rewards the worst part of us: the ruthless, competitive, conniving, opportunistic, acquisitive drives, giving little reward and often much punishment--or at least much handicap--to honesty, compassion, fair play, many forms of hard work, love of justice, and a concern for those in need."

-- Michael Parenti

Is Parenti substantially correct? Why or why not?

As someone who has engaged in various capitalistic enterprises, I can say that Parenti is correct. I can also say that he missed the part that capitalism can also inspire and engender the best in us: creativity, hard-work, vision, personal fulfillment and development, progress, and enthusiasm.

One-sided views of complex systems, including human socio-economic systems, are generally too simplistic and biased to be useful, other than in a rhetorical sense.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Are you implying I am not fit?

I think he's saying more something like: someone born with a club foot isn't going to find it fair for our rewards in life to based on how fast you can run a mile.

 

[Amechania]

I am a capitalist. I am a small business person. I own and operate an advertising company, I'm a portrait artist. I run an espresso stand. I'm a vendor for various events supplying everything from shaved-ice to hot dogs. My livelihood is entirely dependent on the quality of my employees. I hire people I can trust. I pay them 50% over minimum wage and allow them to make as much in tips as they are able. They reciprocate by doing their best, which strengthens my brand. Take care of your employees and they will take care of you.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I think he's saying more something like: someone born with a club foot isn't going to find it fair for our rewards in life to based on how fast you can run a mile.

Yes we all cannot be winners. Blonde haired blue eyed women get better tips just as most CEO's are over 6 foot tall. No stupid CPA's etc.

 

[dust1n]

Are you implying I am not fit?

No, I'm implying that the unfit, which constitute most people when compared to the fittest (whatever that means for human societies), literally have no reason to support a institution that disenfranchises them. Nor would anyone expect them to.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Survival of the fittest.

I hate when people totally misuse and misrepresent that concept.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

How is that any more ironic than you claiming to be LHP while embracing ideals that conflict with it?

I'm sorry, but I'm supposed to care how others define the LHP? It's such a vague term that it's irrelevant and useless. There's been lots of arguments about that lately in the LHP DIR and no one can agree on what the LHP's definition is, anyway. So I don't care about that.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I know better. The root causes or influences of poverty can vary from one American locality to the next. Mindset and culture absolutely have a significant impact on poverty as well.

When working with individuals impacted by a significant event in my community - those that lived on or below the poverty level shared common characteristics (and mind you, I'm not presenting this with a negate tone): elderly with limited social security and/or retirement income and disabled with limited income.

The majority of the elderly had not worked much during their working years. So, their social security income and retirements were miniscule.

In the East End of my city, where you have the highest concentration of impoverished - there's a lot of drug addiction, alcoholism, abuse and there's a need for educational efforts.

The kids that are raised in this part of my city have the same opportunities as my kids do. They go to the same school system and in fact, have additional opportunities extended to them. This is where culture comes into play as well. If Mom is single and raising you alone and can't keep her head above water (and couldn't keep her head above water before she had children) - these kids unfortunately, don't have the support systems at home to encourage their development.

I'm not blanket labeling as the family dynamics and support within this community varies as well. This type of family is common. Drug abuse, neglect, elective poverty - in the sense that people are having large families without the financial means to support them and without the education and stability to produce healthy, motivated citizens.

And how exactly is capitalism supposed to make this better?

To an extent. But. there's little seeming privilege in the middle class - which is where I'm at and my family is at. I can't relate to the mindset of the "rich", because I don't know anyone in this category.

My Dad who makes a very good salary - worked his way up from the bottom of the totem pole at the shipbuilding. He started without an education - making a very piddly amount. Over the course of 30+ years, he's become a master shipbuilder, makes great money and was able to obtain a college degree over the years.

We weren't raised privileged. We were raised to understand the concept of work ethic, which many Americans lack.

That's wonderful for your father but times have changed. The American fantasy of "hard work = social mobility" isn't a reality for many, if not most, Americans anymore. It's telling that you had to use the example of a person from an earlier generation, a generation that had a much stronger labor movement and unions, at that.

Are you serious? We DO have power over our government. We elect our freaking government. We've allowed it to grow into the monster that it is through our own greed, apathy and stupidity.

Sure, we elect them (well, unless they cheat) but we obviously don't have much say in what our elected representatives do once they're in office.

I must admit that I find it deliciously ironic that as a Satanist, you're not a Libertarian.

I'm not a ******* LaVeyan that worships Ayn Rand.

Perhaps you need to spot check your own morals an ethics. What types of politicians are you putting in office?

I vote for whoever is more to the left.

 

[Revoltingest]

I vote for whoever is more to the left.

Isn't this at odds with anarcho-communism, since the left is big on a much more powerful central government?

 

[Jeremy Mason]

I am a capitalist. I am a small business person. I own and operate an advertising company, I'm a portrait artist. I run an espresso stand. I'm a vendor for various events supplying everything from shaved-ice to hot dogs. My livelihood is entirely dependent on the quality of my employees. I hire people I can trust. I pay them 50% over minimum wage and allow them to make as much in tips as they are able. They reciprocate by doing their best, which strengthens my brand. Take care of your employees and they will take care of you.

There should be more employers like you.

 

[Desert Snake]

I am a capitalist. I am a small business person. I own and operate an advertising company, I'm a portrait artist. I run an espresso stand. I'm a vendor for various events supplying everything from shaved-ice to hot dogs. My livelihood is entirely dependent on the quality of my employees. I hire people I can trust. I pay them 50% over minimum wage and allow them to make as much in tips as they are able. They reciprocate by doing their best, which strengthens my brand. Take care of your employees and they will take care of you.

Oooh hot dogs!

 

[Revoltingest]

I am a capitalist. I am a small business person. I own and operate an advertising company, I'm a portrait artist. I run an espresso stand. I'm a vendor for various events supplying everything from shaved-ice to hot dogs. My livelihood is entirely dependent on the quality of my employees. I hire people I can trust. I pay them 50% over minimum wage and allow them to make as much in tips as they are able. They reciprocate by doing their best, which strengthens my brand. Take care of your employees and they will take care of you.

But it still pays to have software techniques to catch embezzling.
I know....boy, oh boy do I know!