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One Undeniable Proof of the Qur'an

There is one proof of the Holy Qur'an that cannot be dismissed. And it is is as follows:

A man, from the sandhills of Arabia, one of the most ignorant areas of the world at the time, declares that he is a Prophet of God. He is unlettered and has never formally been taught anything. His first order of business is to tell the world that he is a prophet from God, and that there is only one God. And all polytheists are false. Not only that, he declares the Jews and Christians to be false as well.

In one fell swoop, he has turned the entire world against him. The idolators declare he should be killed, the Jews and Christians declare him a heretic. Friends turn to foes. And he his left alone with only a handful of followers. He declares not only that everyone else is false in their beliefs, but that they are faithless, hellbound if they don't reform, ignorant, and their fathers of old were also as ignorant as they are.
Instead of building relations, he is breaking every avenue of his worldly success.

He then declares that God has promised him victory over all his opponents. He dumbfounds all philosophers and clergymen with undeniable arguments from the revelation he is given. He declares that the kings of the world will be conquered when they oppose his message. So, 1 man vs. the entire known world. He sticks to his message, and changes not one iota to reform to the beliefs of the society. He declares that God will grant him all prominence and grandeur, and that all his enemies will be humiliated.

And the crazy thing is, that it happens. It's like someone from the middle of the Amazon jungle, not having one day of schooling, declaring that he will conquer the U.S and Russia, that his greatness will be shown to the world and everyone else humiliated and he somehow manages it. And he declares all this when he has not even enough followers to count on the tips of his fingers.

This is the beauty of Prophecy in the Qur'an. Other scriptures only describe things like earthquakes and pestilence will happen, which anyone can predict. But who can predict their own victory and the humiliation of all their opposers within their own lifetime? And that such a thing also comes true?

At the very least, it demands that any serious seeker of truth look into the rest of the claims of the holy Qur'an. In regards to prophecy, there doesn't seem to be any grander sort of prophecy that can be shown by God in support of a prophet of his.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
So... can we also say that Mormonism (started by an uneducated man who claimed to read signs and was called a heretic, turned the world against him, etc.) is therefore undeniably true, too?

What about scientology, started by a bumbling science fiction writer who was forced to live out at sea to escape his enemies?

Also I know Jesus is important in Islam too, but consider the Christian case for Jesus having those same characteristics...

Most religions are started by people who "defy all odds" and we see that those religions are also very successful.

I wouldn't call this an "undeniable proof" in my book, just one example among many of how easily humans will believe what another human says.
 

xkatz

Well-Known Member
Why are there so many of these Quran threads all of the sudden?

I mean the Quran and Islam are ok with me but I feel like these threads just keep on coming.
 
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Wandered Off

Sporadic Driveby Member
It could be dismissed on the basis that an almighty deity would understand the inherent pitfalls of second-hand revelation. Using a messenger has only downside risk and no advantage whatsoever.

Great leaders had to communicate to masses by using messengers. Human tendency is to anthropomorphize gods, and it seemed natural to them that a god would have the characteristics of leaders of the day in addition to supernatural traits. That's why gods often are depicted as rulers, conquerers, and petty to the point of cruelty to those who don't pay proper homage.

"Some guy said god told him to tell you..." is one of the weakest claims to authority I can think of.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
It could be dismissed on the basis that an almighty deity would understand the inherent pitfalls of second-hand revelation. Using a messenger has only downside risk and no advantage whatsoever.

Great leaders had to communicate to masses by using messengers. Human tendency is to anthropomorphize gods, and it seemed natural to them that a god would have the characteristics of leaders of the day in addition to supernatural traits. That's why gods often are depicted as rulers, conquerers, and petty to the point of cruelty to those who don't pay proper homage.

"Some guy said god told him to tell you..." is one of the weakest claims to authority I can think of.

I very much agree with this. It also causes religion to spread through cultural diffusion; any god should realize how silly a state of affairs that is -- reducing their "holy word" to a fashion!

I would be pretty convinced if we all had direct revelations, which I don't see as beyond the power of a deity. If I woke up one day and had a conversation with God I might think myself insane until I talked to my friends to find out that they'd all had the same thing happen.

I mean, I guess it "could" be some kind of advanced technology (after all, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic) but it would be a heck of a lot more convincing than this business with "prophets." It just seems silly a god would rely on something like that.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
There is one proof of the Holy Qur'an that cannot be dismissed. And it is is as follows:

A man, from the sandhills of Arabia, one of the most ignorant areas of the world at the time, declares that he is a Prophet of God. He is unlettered and has never formally been taught anything. His first order of business is to tell the world that he is a prophet from God, and that there is only one God. And all polytheists are false. Not only that, he declares the Jews and Christians to be false as well.

In one fell swoop, he has turned the entire world against him. The idolators declare he should be killed, the Jews and Christians declare him a heretic. Friends turn to foes. And he his left alone with only a handful of followers. He declares not only that everyone else is false in their beliefs, but that they are faithless, hellbound if they don't reform, ignorant, and their fathers of old were also as ignorant as they are.
Instead of building relations, he is breaking every avenue of his worldly success.

He then declares that God has promised him victory over all his opponents. He dumbfounds all philosophers and clergymen with undeniable arguments from the revelation he is given. He declares that the kings of the world will be conquered when they oppose his message. So, 1 man vs. the entire known world. He sticks to his message, and changes not one iota to reform to the beliefs of the society. He declares that God will grant him all prominence and grandeur, and that all his enemies will be humiliated.

And the crazy thing is, that it happens. It's like someone from the middle of the Amazon jungle, not having one day of schooling, declaring that he will conquer the U.S and Russia, that his greatness will be shown to the world and everyone else humiliated and he somehow manages it. And he declares all this when he has not even enough followers to count on the tips of his fingers.

This is the beauty of Prophecy in the Qur'an. Other scriptures only describe things like earthquakes and pestilence will happen, which anyone can predict. But who can predict their own victory and the humiliation of all their opposers within their own lifetime? And that such a thing also comes true?

At the very least, it demands that any serious seeker of truth look into the rest of the claims of the holy Qur'an. In regards to prophecy, there doesn't seem to be any grander sort of prophecy that can be shown by God in support of a prophet of his.

You cannot prove something that is only supported by faith
 
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Azakel

Liebe ist für alle da
Why are there so many of these Quran threads all of the sudden?

I mean the Quran and Islam are ok with me but I feel like these threads just keep on coming.
It usually happens when we get a new Muslim member that feels the need to try ad prove there religion to all us unbelievers. they don't last long, for it seems that even other Muslim don't care for them here.
 

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
It usually happens when we get a new Muslim member that feels the need to try ad prove there religion to all us unbelievers. they don't last long, for it seems that even other Muslim don't care for them here.

I have to say that if some atheist got on here touting all kinds of irrational pseudohistory/pseudoscience/pseudophilosophy to try to "prove" strong atheism or something like that I wouldn't care for it either. They'd find very quickly that they have at least one atheist opponent -- me.
 
Every scripture has these "forfilled" prophecies. Co-incidence doesn't rule any of this out. There are thousands upon thousands of battles, religious wars, religious prophecies. Pick one, and match it to something in your chosen religion.

BANG! You can proof your religion is the ONLY right one. It is all too easy to continue to deepen your delusion.
 

jtartar

Well-Known Member
There is one proof of the Holy Qur'an that cannot be dismissed. And it is is as follows:

A man, from the sandhills of Arabia, one of the most ignorant areas of the world at the time, declares that he is a Prophet of God. He is unlettered and has never formally been taught anything. His first order of business is to tell the world that he is a prophet from God, and that there is only one God. And all polytheists are false. Not only that, he declares the Jews and Christians to be false as well.

In one fell swoop, he has turned the entire world against him. The idolators declare he should be killed, the Jews and Christians declare him a heretic. Friends turn to foes. And he his left alone with only a handful of followers. He declares not only that everyone else is false in their beliefs, but that they are faithless, hellbound if they don't reform, ignorant, and their fathers of old were also as ignorant as they are.
Instead of building relations, he is breaking every avenue of his worldly success.

He then declares that God has promised him victory over all his opponents. He dumbfounds all philosophers and clergymen with undeniable arguments from the revelation he is given. He declares that the kings of the world will be conquered when they oppose his message. So, 1 man vs. the entire known world. He sticks to his message, and changes not one iota to reform to the beliefs of the society. He declares that God will grant him all prominence and grandeur, and that all his enemies will be humiliated.

And the crazy thing is, that it happens. It's like someone from the middle of the Amazon jungle, not having one day of schooling, declaring that he will conquer the U.S and Russia, that his greatness will be shown to the world and everyone else humiliated and he somehow manages it. And he declares all this when he has not even enough followers to count on the tips of his fingers.

This is the beauty of Prophecy in the Qur'an. Other scriptures only describe things like earthquakes and pestilence will happen, which anyone can predict. But who can predict their own victory and the humiliation of all their opposers within their own lifetime? And that such a thing also comes true?

At the very least, it demands that any serious seeker of truth look into the rest of the claims of the holy Qur'an. In regards to prophecy, there doesn't seem to be any grander sort of prophecy that can be shown by God in support of a prophet of his.

Control to win,
Most of the things you have written actually proves tha opposite of what you seem to think.
Jesus is THE PRINCE of PEACE, Isa 9:6,7, not war as the prophet Mohammad was.
Another reason to discount anything said in the Koran is this: Anyone who writes or teaches anything other than what is written in the Bible is accursed, Gal 1:6-9. The Bible is all that is needed to learn God's requirements, anything more is accursed, according to the Holy Scriptures, 2Tim 3:16,17.
There is a term called: Traduce!!! According to true Koran believers, the Koran cannot be translated into any other language without contaminating it. THINK, would that be true of the word of The God who wants all mankind to learn about His ways???
The Bible says that it means our very life to take in knowledge of God and the one He sent forth, Jesus Christ
In the Original Holy Writings, God's name was written over 7,000 times. God's Proper, or personal name is JEHOVAH, NOT Alla. God has promised that He is going to destroy all other Gods, that really are nonexistent, Ps 115:2-8, Jere 10:10,11,14,15, Isa 44:14-17, 1Cor 8:4-6.
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
Control to win,
Most of the things you have written actually proves tha opposite of what you seem to think.
Jesus is THE PRINCE of PEACE, Isa 9:6,7, not war as the prophet Mohammad was.
Another reason to discount anything said in the Koran is this: Anyone who writes or teaches anything other than what is written in the Bible is accursed, Gal 1:6-9. The Bible is all that is needed to learn God's requirements, anything more is accursed, according to the Holy Scriptures, 2Tim 3:16,17.
There is a term called: Traduce!!! According to true Koran believers, the Koran cannot be translated into any other language without contaminating it. THINK, would that be true of the word of The God who wants all mankind to learn about His ways???
The Bible says that it means our very life to take in knowledge of God and the one He sent forth, Jesus Christ
In the Original Holy Writings, God's name was written over 7,000 times. God's Proper, or personal name is JEHOVAH, NOT Alla. God has promised that He is going to destroy all other Gods, that really are nonexistent, Ps 115:2-8, Jere 10:10,11,14,15, Isa 44:14-17, 1Cor 8:4-6.
god is going to destroy all other non-existent gods?
 

allright

Active Member
Why is it I have never heard a Muslim declare how he knows Allah is real because of the way he has changed him and blessed his life?
It seems whenever I have seen a Muslim interviewed about problems in their country or their personal life I have never heard them declare thier personal faith in Allah who is watching over them and will take care of them.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Why is it I have never heard a Muslim declare how he knows Allah is real because of the way he has changed him and blessed his life?
It seems whenever I have seen a Muslim interviewed about problems in their country or their personal life I have never heard them declare thier personal faith in Allah who is watching over them and will take care of them.
Not overlooking the extraordinary adage of "Insha'allah". It is a peculiarly fatalistic notion. If god wills. Curiously, when Islam has met with opposition or has been severely beaten back it is seen as persecution and oppression by her enemies, but when everything is rosy it is the "will of god". It's an odd way to look at reality. I wonder how many Muslims look at their collective position in the world as being the result of imperialistic aggression rather than the "will of Allah". Things that make you go, "Hmmm."
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
At the very least, it demands that any serious seeker of truth look into the rest of the claims of the holy Qur'an. In regards to prophecy, there doesn't seem to be any grander sort of prophecy that can be shown by God in support of a prophet of his.
I read the Qur'an. however I didn't find any of the things you were indoctrinated to hold about it.
all these tiresome threads about science and the Qur'an, about proofs of the Qur'an's infallibility really just make people who would have a healthy desire to read the Qur'an for educational purposes think twice.
 
Everyone has misunderstood the greatness of this prophecy. It is not merely the fact that Islam was victorious over all it's enemies. There are many people's who conquer others, this is not something new in the world.

The fact is, there are at least a dozen of these prophecies recorded in the Qur'an. And they were all made when the prophet was almost completely alone, and being persecuted from all sides for 13 YEARS in mecca.

The peculiarity of this prophecy is that it is not ambiguous by alluding to some kind of war or pestilence, etc. This is a CLEAR-CUT prophecy which declares that the Prophet will be victorious, the disbelievers will be completely routed, and all those who oppose Islam (militarily) will be overcome.

I honestly believe that to make such a prophecy, at a time when you are alone, being persecuted, and sticking to it through 13 years of suffering, and then coming out on top, is not something that can just be ignored.

Interestingly, when mecca was conquered, it was this prophecy, which had come to fruition, that moved almost the entire meccan population to accept Islam.

And yea...I'm a proselytizing Muslim...:shrug: But I do it as much for my own benefit as I hope yours. If my arguments are not logical or if they are faulty, then I hope someone can steer me straight. This is a testing ground, as I think it should be.
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
And yea...I'm a proselytizing Muslim...:shrug: But I do it as much for my own benefit as I hope yours. If my arguments are not logical or if they are faulty, then I hope someone can steer me straight. This is a testing ground, as I think it should be.
Proselytization is against forum rules. as a member of staff I advice you to take the time to read our rules so that we can avoid discomfort to either parties.
and explaining why your arguments are illogical or faulty would only result in endless circular reasoning.
 

I.S.L.A.M617

Illuminatus
There is one proof of the Holy Qur'an that cannot be dismissed. And it is is as follows:

A man, from the sandhills of Arabia, one of the most ignorant areas of the world at the time, declares that he is a Prophet of God. He is unlettered and has never formally been taught anything. His first order of business is to tell the world that he is a prophet from God, and that there is only one God. And all polytheists are false. Not only that, he declares the Jews and Christians to be false as well.

In one fell swoop, he has turned the entire world against him. The idolators declare he should be killed, the Jews and Christians declare him a heretic. Friends turn to foes. And he his left alone with only a handful of followers. He declares not only that everyone else is false in their beliefs, but that they are faithless, hellbound if they don't reform, ignorant, and their fathers of old were also as ignorant as they are.
Instead of building relations, he is breaking every avenue of his worldly success.

He then declares that God has promised him victory over all his opponents. He dumbfounds all philosophers and clergymen with undeniable arguments from the revelation he is given. He declares that the kings of the world will be conquered when they oppose his message. So, 1 man vs. the entire known world. He sticks to his message, and changes not one iota to reform to the beliefs of the society. He declares that God will grant him all prominence and grandeur, and that all his enemies will be humiliated.

And the crazy thing is, that it happens. It's like someone from the middle of the Amazon jungle, not having one day of schooling, declaring that he will conquer the U.S and Russia, that his greatness will be shown to the world and everyone else humiliated and he somehow manages it. And he declares all this when he has not even enough followers to count on the tips of his fingers.

This is the beauty of Prophecy in the Qur'an. Other scriptures only describe things like earthquakes and pestilence will happen, which anyone can predict. But who can predict their own victory and the humiliation of all their opposers within their own lifetime? And that such a thing also comes true?

At the very least, it demands that any serious seeker of truth look into the rest of the claims of the holy Qur'an. In regards to prophecy, there doesn't seem to be any grander sort of prophecy that can be shown by God in support of a prophet of his.
Sounds like any other prophet for any other religion to me...
 
Sounds like any other prophet for any other religion to me...

This is exactly what IT SHOULD SEEM LIKE. It cannot go unnoticed that all prophets of God, whether you look through the old testament or carefully read through the vedas, made the same claim in their time of weakness. That not only would they be victorious over their opposers, but their opposers would also be destroyed or join him. Allah says:

58:22] [FONT=_PDMS_Saleem_QuranFont] كَتَبَ اللّٰهُ لَاَغْلِبَنَّ اَنَا وَرُسُلِىْ*ؕ اِنَّ اللّٰهَ قَوِىٌّ عَزِيْزٌ‏ [/FONT]
speaker.gif
Allah has decreed: ‘Most surely I will prevail, I and My Messengers.’ Verily, Allah is Powerful, Mighty.

So this is a habit of God with those He sends to this world.

"And you will never find a change in the action of Allah"


 
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