Only your religion is right. Justification please!?

[Wannabe Yogi]

So you agree with the OP that myths, superstitions and faiths are human creations?

I would not put Mythology in the same category with superstition. I would compare it to Philosophy,Art,Ethics and psychology. Just like all the other subjects it comes from the human experince.

 

[Eliot Wild]

You want to know how better to insult and ridicule people. You want to abuse others to make you feel better about yourself. You want to scoff. And laugh. And mock.

I don't know you personally, but I know your type.

So, you have a complete understanding of the OP's author based on a single written message in a section of this forum specifically set aside for the purpose of challenging and debating religious dogma and convictions? Although the author of OP is doing exactly what this section was designed for by offering a written challenge to religious teaching, you have miracuously determined that the intent of the OP was not to instigate healthy and invigorating debate but to 'scoff, laugh and mock'?

I don't know the OP's author personally either, but seeing where we are and what this place is designed for, I think I'll give him/her the benefit of the doubt for now. Of course, arguments solely intended to ridicule, scoff and mock should be fairly easy to challenge, or at least I would think so. I certainly wouldnt presume to tell you how to engage others in this forum, but just as a suggestion, perhaps you might try offering reasonable, lucid arguments against the OP rather than using it as a rationale for pre-judging another's unspoken motive. Just a thought.

 

[sandandfoam]

You do if you claim that your religion is the truth. More-so if you incite others to join your religion.

I claim my religion is true for me. Whatever anyone else believes is their own business

Ah, but you see, it DOES affect me. Creationists pushing their stuff on schools, Christians protesting free choice abortion, Christians opposing stem-cell research, Christians opposing gay marriage... Just off the top of my head.

And all of this for purely religious reasons with little or no basis in reality. Now, I'm not claiming that you personally hold any of these views, but by supporting their central claim (that there is a god and that this god is the Christian god) you are lending them credibility. And this is not an attack on you personally, but rather an attempt to show you that, yes, what you believe does in fact affect other people.

Not so. I am an individual. If you choose to categorise me with creationists that's your look out.

 

[sandandfoam]

Another Christian side stepping the OP. Why am I not surprised?

I answered it directly in post 7.
I imagine you're not surprised because you see what you want to see. Same as all of us.

 

[jarofthoughts]

I claim my religion is true for me. Whatever anyone else believes is their own business

There is no "true for me". Something is either true or it is not. Either there is a god or there is not. Either that god is the Christian god or he/she/it is not.

Not so. I am an individual. If you choose to categorise me with creationists that's your look out.

I specifically did not claim to categorize you with creationists.
What I claimed was that by supporting their central claim you lend them your credibility. And if no-one lent them their credibility then they would have no political pull at all. Thus, your belief affects other people.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

You do if you claim that your religion is the truth. More-so if you incite others to join your religion.

Let me use a William James religious term "cash value". The beliefs of stephenw is Good he is a kind, nonviolent, guy who treats others with respect.(at least as far as I can tell on the internet) The cash value of his belief system is very high.( He follows the beliefs of Gandhi so it's hard for me Criticize him.) I could say the same is true with a number of Atheists on RF. Other folks I know their belief system creates hate and bad feeling every place they go. I would say they have a low cash value for there beliefs.

Ah, but you see, it DOES affect me. Creationists pushing their stuff on schools, Christians protesting free choice abortion, Christians opposing stem-cell research, Christians opposing gay marriage... Just off the top of my head.

Folks who push their superstition on the pubic at large have a very low cash value for their beliefs. It matters not if you are Atheist, Hindu, or Christian. You are a barbarian at the gate of civilization desiring to sack and loot your way back to the dark ages.

 

[sandandfoam]

There is no "true for me". Something is either true or it is not. Either there is a god or there is not. Either that god is the Christian god or he/she/it is not.

I disagree.
There is only subjectivity. No one has a 'gods eye view'.
We see things as black or white, true or not because that's how we are.
I believe in objective reality but I do not believe it is knowable.

 

[PolyHedral]

Then why do you believe in objective reality, if you can never be sure that it exists?

 

[sandandfoam]

Then why do you believe in objective reality, if you can never be sure that it exists?

Because it makes sense to me.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I like the view taken by some sociologists that religion is created by societies as a method of social control.

-Q

 

[jarofthoughts]

I disagree.
There is only subjectivity. No one has a 'gods eye view'.
We see things as black or white, true or not because that's how we are.
I believe in objective reality but I do not believe it is knowable.

Right. Do you agree to the premise that god either exists or does not exist?
I mean, it would be a major feature of our universe. Surely if he exists, then he exists for everyone and not just you, right?
So this would be an obvious instance in which something is either true or it is not.

Which means that your religion and your faith cannot logically in any way be "true for you".

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Right. Do you agree to the premise that god either exists or does not exist?

I think you should change your Title from Empirical Curmudgeon to Atheist missionary converting the religious.

 

[jarofthoughts]

I think you should change your Title from Empirical Curmudgeon to Atheist missionary converting the religious.

I'm an atheist because I hold empirical evidence to be absolutely vital to my view of reality, not the other way around.

In other words, there are plenty of things I don't believe in besides god(s).

 

[croak]

Darn it, I lost my post.

Anyway, I wanted to say that if you want to refer the Australian Aborigines as one, great, homogeneous group, you are doing a great disservice. The phrase refers to people who lived in prior to the arrival of European settlers and continue to live in the country and continent of Australia. That's it. Would you say the indigenous peoples of North America all believe the same thing? If you say yes, then... wow, I feel sorry for you.

Also, some people believe that their way of life is right for them, but maybe not for everyone else. They don't go around proclaiming that only their way is the right way. You seem to ignore that, though.

Lastly:

Yes, we all must acknowledge humans create religions. That is a given. If you are a christian, then you acknowlege that thousands of religions (except yours), is made by man to explain things (volanoes, lightening, life, univerise, etc.)

If you are Muslem, the same applies, but now Islam in the one exception.

I think if I was born 1000 years ago, and didn't have any knowledge of the world outside of my community or country, I might believe whatever religion was followed in my society at that time.

But, now that we know of all the other countries, populations and communities, each with their own religions, then we know things for sure:

1. Humans create religions
2. Humans follow religions that are created by humans.

With these undeniable facts, how do the religious justify their beliefs?

That isn't a given, and you haven't conclusively proved that every religion on the face of the Earth was created by humans. Maybe aliens were involved. It might seem like a slight to nonexistent possibility, but nevertheless you cannot argue that what you posited were undeniable facts. Nobody knows everything (or arguably anything) for sure.

I have a feeling I forgot to mention something, but I also have the feeling I've gone off on a rant, so I'll stop here.

 

[Quiddity]

What if you think yours is right and others have it partly right?

 

[Quiddity]

I'm an atheist because I hold empirical evidence to be absolutely vital to my view of reality, not the other way around.

In other words, there are plenty of things I don't believe in besides god(s).

....because someone can't possibly hold emperical evidence in high esteem and believe in God?

 

[Jeremiah]

You want to know how better to insult and ridicule people. You want to abuse others to make you feel better about yourself. You want to scoff. And laugh. And mock.

I don't know you personally, but I know your type.

"but I know your type."

What is that? The type that has a different opinion then you?

 

[Atomist]

I claim my religion is true for me. Whatever anyone else believes is their own business

What about the bible verses that tell you to proselytize.

 

[Jeremiah]

I'm an atheist because I hold empirical evidence to be absolutely vital to my view of reality, not the other way around.

In other words, there are plenty of things I don't believe in besides god(s).

" I hold empirical evidence to be absolutely vital to my view of reality"

I think that describes just about everyone. There might be a few exceptions, but generally speaking empirical evidence plays a vital role in everyone's view of reality.

 

[Wotan]

....because someone can't possibly hold emperical evidence in high esteem and believe in God?

Pretty much, yes.

Now if you HAVE empirical evidence for god(s) let us have at.
We would all be very interested.