Only your religion is right. Justification please!?

[sandandfoam]

I am merely following the textbook definitions of what belief is. I think, if we are to discuss a subject, we should at least agree on what the terms we use actually mean.

I have difficulty imagining that a fruitful discussion is possible between views such as you express and those such as I hold.
The above statement illustrates the gulf in understanding between us. The quoted section seeks to impose meaning and set down rules. An imaginary objectivity is the start point.

I believe meaning emerges from the inside of both myself and others and that if I want to learn I need to listen and engage. I believe that meaning emerges in discourse between people - not that it lies around waiting to be picked up.

The problem is that theism doesn't so much explain various phenomena as it tells you. And what it usually tells you is "god did it" which isn't much of an explanation.

I think it's funny how often non-theists project the theism in which they don't believe and expect it's the one in which I do believe.
Sure I have a head full of myths - I have never denied it. I'm not looking for explanations because I don't believe I am capable of grasping an explanation of everything. Of all the billions of people who have ever lived none have as yet come up with a satisfactory objective explanation. This I consider puts my chances in perspective should I try and pee into the wind and seek such a phantom. I'm not after explanation I seek to explore subjectivity.

Empiricism enters into everything that in any shape or form influences the physical world, and since I, until evidence to the contrary surfaces, hold that the physical world is all there is, then logically empiricism enters into everything.
The mechanisms of what we call love as well as why we find certain things appealing or not is also being empirically researched and empirical evidence is building up.

The man with a hammer sees every problem as a nail.

So yes, even love, despite how we romantizise it, can be empirically explained

Go away out of that. Refer me to this miraculous study please.

 

[blackout]

Not if one considers empirical evidence to be the measuring stick by which we define reality, no. There is no empirical evidence that there is such a thing as a god.

That REALLY depends on your definition of god.

And as we all know.... YOUR definition of god....
cannot be supported by empirical evidence.

Now go ask a Pantheist.
(And I'm just keeping it simple for you)

 

[Midnight Pete]

For a non-believer you're awfully specific and insistent about what it means to believe. Maybe you don't know anything about it, and if you would like to understand how a believer's mind works you should listen and learn rather than explain to the rest of us how it has to be.

This is the sentiment I wanted to communicate but couldn't find the words to express.

:clap

 

[blackout]

Humans create and follow religions. This is known....
When you look at 1 billion Hindus believing a Lord Vishna created trees from a Lotus flower, and Australian Aborigines believe rainbows are the result of a giant serpent spirit, and Christians believe that god drowned the entire planet except for a 950 year old man, and his family, AND all the animals!

These stories each sound as crazy as the next one, but there is no shortage of follows for these, and, oh so many other religions.

Yes, we all must acknowledge humans create religions. That is a given. If you are a christian, then you acknowlege that thousands of religions (except yours), is made by man to explain things (volanoes, lightening, life, univerise, etc.)

If you are Muslem, the same applies, but now Islam in the one exception.

I think if I was born 1000 years ago, and didn't have any knowledge of the world outside of my community or country, I might believe whatever religion was followed in my society at that time.

But, now that we know of all the other countries, populations and communities, each with their own religions, then we know things for sure:

1. Humans create religions
2. Humans follow religions that are created by humans.

With these undeniable facts, how do the religious justify their beliefs?

To me, this is the clincher. This is all the evidence I need. Nothing more required to be said or done. Humans create religions and follow them.

(Note: There are more and more brain studies showing our susceptibility to belief, and other factors that show religiosity is a bi-product of other useful brain mechanisms, but that is not the point of this thread, I wanted to know the religious' own justifications)

My "religion" is my Own.

That actually is the POINT of my "religion".
(proving right away the success of it's purpose)

Therefore MY "means" (ways & meanings)
support (if not justify) my own ends.

In my religion, I don't really "believe in" anything.
Rather I suspend disbelief
as a tool,
to aid me in the creation/construction of my reality.

So you might say that I justify
(ie demonstrate the reason'able'ness of)
my suspended disbelief
in the resultant effect it has on both my subjective and objective reality.
(ie the trans'formations it makes on my life/life experience)

 

[blackout]

I create/find My Own meaning.
I Spell my Own Casts.

I am my Own god/dess.

(and as a Part Time Discordian,
I am also my Own Pope.)

 

[jarofthoughts]

That REALLY depends on your definition of god.

And as we all know.... YOUR definition of god....
cannot be supported by empirical evidence.

Now go ask a Pantheist.
(And I'm just keeping it simple for you)

Well, a deistic or pantheistic god is something that we at the very least could discuss, whereas a theistic god is actually refutable through empirical means.
Still, saying that EVERYTHING is god means removing the concept from the realm of the falsifiable, which means that there never CAN be any type of empirical evidence for that particular type of god. Which brings us somewhat back to square one.

In other words, when considering god, any god, there is no evidence that such a being exists.

 

[jarofthoughts]

This is the sentiment I wanted to communicate but couldn't find the words to express.

:clap

I refer you to my reply to that statement above.

 

[Noaidi]

I think everyone's religion is unique to them (i.e their interpretation and personal application of it), thus it is the 'right one' for them. If it works, then it works, irrespective of how much sense it makes in light of reality. Most christians I know are educated people, but choose to believe in a world of demons, angels and talking snakes. However, it works for them.

My problem, as has been highlighted before, is when people of any faith claim that theirs is the right / true one for everyone and then try and force that view on others, be it through the education system, politics etc.

 

[sandandfoam]

My problem, as has been highlighted before, is when people of any faith claim that theirs is the right / true one for everyone and then try and force that view on others, be it through the education system, politics etc.

Agree 100%

 

[Midnight Pete]

The problem with trying to prove your religion to be the only correct one is obvious-- everyone else is stupid and won't accept your justification. They will not let you enjoy your prize of being right.

 

[Wotan]

The problem with trying to prove your religion to be the only correct one is obvious-- everyone else is stupid and won't accept your justification. They will not let you enjoy your prize of being right.

If you meant that to be ironic OK.

BUT

We all know that for millions of believers in these myths that statement is NOT ironic at all. But rather a statement of fact! And we have recent examples to prove it. A devout and learned christian pastor names Jones comes to mind.

 

[BruceDLimber]

[to a third party] How to [sic] you justify what YOU believe, knowing humans create religions and follow them?

While it's true that humans do create some religions--false ones--, this in no way changes the fact that whether YOU like it or not, others are IOV indeed God-created and God-sent! So it's simply wrong to lump all of them together and therefore dismiss them without further investigation.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Revoltingest]

While it's true that humans do create some religions--false ones--, this in no way changes the fact that whether YOU like it or not, others are IOV indeed God-created and God-sent! So it's simply wrong to lump all of them together and therefore dismiss them without further investigation.

How do you know the false ones aren't true & the true ones aren't false?

 

[Midnight Pete]

If you meant that to be ironic OK.

BUT

We all know that for millions of believers in these myths that statement is NOT ironic at all. But rather a statement of fact! And we have recent examples to prove it. A devout and learned christian pastor names Jones comes to mind.

Pastor Jones is a fallible human being, just like you and I. And his error makes for a good strawman argument.

 

[Quiddity]

That is because the concept of god in for instance the Bible is an unfalsifiable proposition and not because they wouldn't be willing to.

Is there a secret society of scientist just itching to show santa doesn't exist?
Any effort or need to do it is a disorder being injected into science.

Actually it has everything with how science and empirical evidence is used.
In science one relies on empirical evidence to know what is, and if something, say, Faeries, does not have positive evidence of their existence, one logically assumes that no such creature exists until said evidence surfaces.

God, in this respect, is a Faerie.

Could be. But it still has nothing to do with science.

Here is a wink back...

 

[Rakhel]

Judaism is the right religion because if you don't believe, you won't go to hell, you will go to heaven, and G-d will still show mercy. So nyah

Of course, I can't say my religion is better than the next. That is just plan foolishness.

 

[Quiddity]

Judaism is the right religion because if you don't believe, you won't go to hell, you will go to heaven, and G-d will still show mercy. So nyah

I thought you just sieze to exist or that it's unsure what happens to us heathens?

 

[Rakhel]

LOL again it would be foolish of me to say mine is better than yours. I don't even believe that. Religion is just a way to practice your faith in what you belief.

 

[Luminous]

A: Self Evident.

 

[Quiddity]

LOL again it would be foolish of me to say mine is better than yours. I don't even believe that. Religion is just a way to practice your faith in what you belief.

Oooook....

But you didn't answer my question. Perhaps another day.