Only your religion is right. Justification please!?

[Autodidact]

Darn it, I lost my post.

Anyway, I wanted to say that if you want to refer the Australian Aborigines as one, great, homogeneous group, you are doing a great disservice. The phrase refers to people who lived in prior to the arrival of European settlers and continue to live in the country and continent of Australia. That's it. Would you say the indigenous peoples of North America all believe the same thing? If you say yes, then... wow, I feel sorry for you.

Also, some people believe that their way of life is right for them, but maybe not for everyone else. They don't go around proclaiming that only their way is the right way. You seem to ignore that, though.

Lastly:

That isn't a given, and you haven't conclusively proved that every religion on the face of the Earth was created by humans. Maybe aliens were involved. It might seem like a slight to nonexistent possibility, but nevertheless you cannot argue that what you posited were undeniable facts. Nobody knows everything (or arguably anything) for sure.

I have a feeling I forgot to mention something, but I also have the feeling I've gone off on a rant, so I'll stop here.

Yes, I get you, for you religion is a path or way to live your life, rather than a set of statements about reality, is that right? To me that sounds more like philosophy than religion. I think Buddhism or Confucianism, but Islam? Isn't the central idea that God exists and commands us to do certain things and not do others?

 

[Autodidact]

What if you think yours is right and others have it partly right?

Then talk about that. What makes you think that?

 

[Autodidact]

" I hold empirical evidence to be absolutely vital to my view of reality"

I think that describes just about everyone. There might be a few exceptions, but generally speaking empirical evidence plays a vital role in everyone's view of reality.

Oh I don't think so at all. In fact I think there are two kinds of people, Platonists and Aristotelians, or people who think in terms of essences, ideals, abstract concepts, and people who think in terms of empiricism, facts, numbers. I'm all about the latter, and find this difference to be at the core of most of the arguments I have here at RF.

For example, if I say that Islam is violent, Muslims will tell me that all that violence that Muslims commit in the name of Islam isn't really Islam at all, because Islam is peaceful. I'm concerned about the facts--people are being killed. They're concerned about the ideal, or Platonic essence, True Islam, which does not exist in practice.

 

[Autodidact]

There's a difference between having a different opinion and wanting to fight about it. I have a different opinion than you, but I do not want to fight about it.

O.K. Why are you in this forum or in this thread?

 

[Autodidact]

I don't like debating. It gets too adversarial.

Maybe you shouldn't be in a debate forum? Just a suggestion.

 

[Autodidact]

Theistic belief is experiential and emotional: you either have religious experiences that theism helps you to explain or you don't. Empiricism doesn't enter into it any more than it enters into the equation when you fall in love or enjoy a piece of art.

I don't know, it could, if you take a very empirical view. O.K., so you have a religious experience. How to explain it? One approach you could take is to apply an empirical method to religious experiences: Who has them? What do they have in common? What is going on in their brains? Etc. And you might use this information to help you make sense of your own experience.

Not the only approach, but it is one approach.

For example, Julia Sweeney, who's getting to be a pretty famous atheist, talks about her own intense religious experiences. She now places them in the context of religious experiences in general, based on her reading about what research has been done on them, and believes they have more to do with how our brains work than whether there is a God.

For me, everything is interesting looked at empirically. I always gain some insight into whatever is being examined, including religious experiences.

And I agree with Julia Sweeney.

 

[Autodidact]

The problem with trying to prove your religion to be the only correct one is obvious-- everyone else is stupid and won't accept your justification. They will not let you enjoy your prize of being right.

Except the club of people who agree with you, and you can all get together and just revel in it.

I don't know, though, I don't have such a club, but I bet even within them they find something to disagree about.

 

[Autodidact]

While it's true that humans do create some religions--false ones--, this in no way changes the fact that whether YOU like it or not, others are IOV indeed God-created and God-sent! So it's simply wrong to lump all of them together and therefore dismiss them without further investigation.

Peace,

Bruce

Would that by chance happen to include yours?

btw, what's IOV?

 

[Autodidact]

Religion is nothing more than the public expression of personal faith. And what lies at the heart of personal faith? One's personal relationship with the Divine. It's a relationship with God that does not involve anyone else. And when two or three people gather together to share their faith, it's called the Church or the Body. The Body of Christ. Join the Church and you become part of that body.

O.K., but isn't it faith that certain statements are true, such as the God you have a relationship with is real?

 

[sandandfoam]

O Is it basically a post-modernist or constructivist view, that there is really no such thing as truth, but we all construct it for ourselves?

Yes.

What sort of statement can be true for one person and not for another?

I imagine any

Could you develop how you see Christianity as fitting that? Thanks.

Christianity is many things to many people. My belief is that every Christian fashions a unique Christianity for themselves. I consider myself a sort of meaning maker - culturally I am a 'fit' for the Christian myths. Christianity provides me with a set of myths from which I can attempt to make meanings in my life.
Many here might argue that genocidal crazy people wrote these violent myths, children are brainwashed by them etc.
That's not how I see it. My basis is in Tolstoy, Newell and Spong. They offer me interpretations from which I can build my own myth.

 

[Meow Mix]

Except the club of people who agree with you, and you can all get together and just revel in it.

I don't know, though, I don't have such a club, but I bet even within them they find something to disagree about.

Sign me up to your club as long as I get to have an awesome title like President or Treasurer or something!

 

[Autodidact]

Sign me up to your club as long as I get to have an awesome title like President or Treasurer or something!

Aretha Franklin is the greatest singer who ever lived or who ever will live, on this planet or any other planet, in this universe or any possible universe: agree or disagree?

 

[sandandfoam]

Of course not, but if you don't want to, why are you in the thread?

I'm here because I've a knee jerk reaction to ops like this one. I should just keep walking when I see 'Theists believe .....

You're perfectly entitled to believe anything you like, however unjustified. Why would you want to?

My choice, as I see it, is to make sense of my world as best I can - or not. I choose to search for meaning.

 

[sandandfoam]

So can we ever say of any statement that it is true?

We can agree inter-subjectively.

 

[Midnight Pete]

O.K. Why are you in this forum or in this thread?

To discuss different beliefs/opions/ideas but no to argue about whose is correct. I'm not here to evangelize or hard-sell anyone. I'm here just to converse with others and learn about their beliefs/opinions/ideas so as to enrich my own. I have a cause but I'm not here to evangelize it. I have a belief-system but I'm not her to shill for it. Why can't you just leave it at that? Just accept that I am who I am?

 

[Riverwolf]

Yes, I get you, for you religion is a path or way to live your life, rather than a set of statements about reality, is that right?

Sort of, but not reality in terms of how long ago the world was created or how evolution works or whether or not there's a soul separate from the body. More reality in terms of how it directly relates to experience, if that makes any sense.

To me that sounds more like philosophy than religion. I think Buddhism or Confucianism, but Islam? Isn't the central idea that God exists and commands us to do certain things and not do others?

Sounds like a way of life, to me. ^_^

 

[Autodidact]

Sort of, but not reality in terms of how long ago the world was created or how evolution works or whether or not there's a soul separate from the body. More reality in terms of how it directly relates to experience, if that makes any sense.



Sounds like a way of life, to me. ^_^

A way of life based on assertions about reality: God exists, there is only one, His name is Allah, He had a prophet, He told the prophet what He expects of us...

 

[croak]

Yes, I get you, for you religion is a path or way to live your life, rather than a set of statements about reality, is that right? To me that sounds more like philosophy than religion. I think Buddhism or Confucianism, but Islam? Isn't the central idea that God exists and commands us to do certain things and not do others?

I could get philosophical and say nobody really knows what "real" reality is. Everything gets taken in by our senses and filtered by our brains. I don't feel comfortable telling someone something isn't true when I personally don't know. So long as your beliefs don't harm anyone else (or yourself), go on believing.

That's basically what I'm saying. I think.

 

[BruceDLimber]

it's simply wrong to lump all religions together and dismiss them without further investigation.

Would that by chance happen to include yours?

Of course!

That's precisely why Individual Investigation of Truth is one of our central principles.

And it's specifically defined as the fact that EVERYONE has the right and duty to study the various religions, determine where the truth lies, and follow that. Further, NO ONE ELSE may interfere with this, including parents, spouse, friends, and clergy.

Specifically, parents are required to see that their children are instructed in all the great religions (Baha'i schools assist in this). For example, when my son was six, he was already in a comparative-religion class that taught how the various great religions were all legitimate and God-sent!

When the child reaches the Age of Maturity (15), he or she then has the prerogative of deciding to become a Baha'i, something else, or nothing whatever! And NO other person--parents included!--may interfere in this decision.

btw, what's IOV?

In our view.

Best regards,

Bruce

 

[jarofthoughts]

For example, when my son was six, he was already in a comparative-religion class that taught how the various great religions were all legitimate and God-sent!

A question of interest, at least to me: Was he also taught that the atheist position is legitimate and valid?