Only your religion is right. Justification please!?

[Wannabe Yogi]

A question of interest, at least to me: Was he also taught that the atheist position is legitimate and valid?

All sides are talked about in my home. Atheism,Christianity,Islam and even Jainism.
Some of our friends are Atheist and they share there views with my son all the time. Why should I live in fear of any system of thought. Our temple teach's belief system of all faiths. At one point my son said he was an Atheist Marxist.He went to temple and told the Swami his new set of beliefs. It was just no big deal. In fact my son received lots of positive attention for his new point of view. The only standard of any belief system is that it is self reflective and teaches compassion for one's fellow humans and the world as a whole.

 

[Riverwolf]

A way of life based on assertions about reality: God exists, there is only one, His name is Allah, He had a prophet, He told the prophet what He expects of us...

Uh... aren't all ways of life based on some sort of view of reality, whether theistic or atheistic?

 

[Autodidact]

Uh... aren't all ways of life based on some sort of view of reality, whether theistic or atheistic?

I think there's a big difference between saying that something works for you, or you find it beneficial, and saying that you need to do it because an actual being, who actually exists, has told you to.

 

[Riverwolf]

I think there's a big difference between saying that something works for you, or you find it beneficial, and saying that you need to do it because an actual being, who actually exists, has told you to.

But I think, in most cases, the reason you follow this being is because what he or she says works for you, and you believe it to be beneficial (unless you're of a very violent disposition, in which you can pervert any teaching into a warlike one.)

In other words, I don't see much difference.

 

[Autodidact]

But I think, in most cases, the reason you follow this being is because what he or she says works for you, and you believe it to be beneficial (unless you're of a very violent disposition, in which you can pervert any teaching into a warlike one.)

In other words, I don't see much difference.

Well supposedly if you don't you will suffer eternal torment. And if you do you will receive eternal joy. And of course you've been told those things since before you had the ability to reason. So those reasons enter into it as well.

 

[jarofthoughts]

All sides are talked about in my home. Atheism,Christianity,Islam and even Jainism.
Some of our friends are Atheist and they share there views with my son all the time. Why should I live in fear of any system of thought. Our temple teach's belief system of all faiths. At one point my son said he was an Atheist Marxist.He went to temple and told the Swami his new set of beliefs. It was just no big deal. In fact my son received lots of positive attention for his new point of view. The only standard of any belief system is that it is self reflective and teaches compassion for one's fellow humans and the world as a whole.

Thank you.

 

[BruceDLimber]

A question of interest, at least to me: Was he also taught that the atheist position is legitimate and valid?

It was probably mentioned as a choice, but I doubt it was stressed as being "valid" as that contradicts our beliefs.

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

It was probably mentioned as a choice, but I doubt it was stressed as being "valid" as that contradicts our beliefs.

Peace,

Bruce

Why? If an atheist s self reflective, a good citizen,and lives in a way that helps the poor and keeps or planet healthy. Does that not make him more ethical then somebody who believes the right things yet lives an unconscious life ? Lets be honest many of us believers (I put myself into this category at times) do just that.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Why? If an atheist s self reflective, a good citizen,and lives in a way that helps the poor and keep or planet health. Does that not make him more ethical then somebody who believes the right things yet lives an unconscious life ? Lets be honest many of us believers (I put myself into this category at times) do just that.

Fully agree. :yes:

I am a "dyed in the wool" atheist and I hereby dare any believer to call me immoral.

- I never lie. (Not even to get a day off from work). Honesty is very important to me.
- I quit my job as a marketing executive to become a teacher which basically cut my paycheck in half because I wanted to do something that meant something to more people than just me.
- I do my best, every day, to teach my pupils about the worth of other people and instil in them the best moral standards I know.
- I never suggest any standards (moral or otherwise) to anyone that I am not able to uphold myself as I strongly believe in practising what you preach.
- I have never and will never cheat on anyone I am in a relationship with.
- I spend my vacations working in Kurdistan (Northern Iraq) helping rebuild their school system.
- I am a strong supporter of personal freedom and I think that anyone should be allowed to love whoever they want and that what consenting adults do between their sheets is none of my business.
- I am also a strong supporter of the freedom of speech and of ideas, and while I might disagree fervently with what you have to say I would die for your right to do so.

Now, go ahead.
Call me immoral.
Call my view of the world invalid.
If you can.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Fully agree.

I am a "dyed in the wool" atheist and I hereby dare any believer to call me immoral.

- I never lie. (Not even to get a day off from work). Honesty is very important to me.
- I quite my job as a marketing executive to become a teacher which basically cut my paycheck in half because I wanted to do something that meant something to more people than just me.
- I do my best, every day, to teach my pupils about the worth of other people and instil in them the best moral standards I know.
- I never suggest any standards (moral or otherwise) to anyone that I am not able to uphold myself as I strongly believe in practising what you preach.
- I have never and will never cheat on anyone I am in a relationship with.
- I spend my vacations working in Kurdistan (Northern Iraq) helping rebuild their school system.
- I am a strong supporter of personal freedom and I think that anyone should be allowed to love whoever they want and that what consenting adults do between their sheets is none of my business.
- I am also a strong supporter of the freedom of speech and of ideas, and while I might disagree fervently with what you have to say I would die for your right to do so.

Now, go ahead.
Call me immoral.
Call my view of the world invalid.
If you can.

I bow to your ethics...but... do you accept Krishna as your personal savour.

 

[blackout]

Fully agree. :yes:

I am a "dyed in the wool" atheist and I hereby dare any believer to call me immoral.

- I never lie. (Not even to get a day off from work). Honesty is very important to me.
- I quite my job as a marketing executive to become a teacher which basically cut my paycheck in half because I wanted to do something that meant something to more people than just me.
- I do my best, every day, to teach my pupils about the worth of other people and instil in them the best moral standards I know.
- I never suggest any standards (moral or otherwise) to anyone that I am not able to uphold myself as I strongly believe in practising what you preach.
- I have never and will never cheat on anyone I am in a relationship with.
- I spend my vacations working in Kurdistan (Northern Iraq) helping rebuild their school system.
- I am a strong supporter of personal freedom and I think that anyone should be allowed to love whoever they want and that what consenting adults do between their sheets is none of my business.
- I am also a strong supporter of the freedom of speech and of ideas, and while I might disagree fervently with what you have to say I would die for your right to do so.

Now, go ahead.
Call me immoral.
Call my view of the world invalid.
If you can.

Just so long as you don't expect anyone/everyone else to live by your moral standards,
that is all fine.


oop.... is "instilling" in your students,
"the best moral standards you know" really your job?

 

[jarofthoughts]

Just so long as you don't expect anyone/everyone else to live by your moral standards, that is all fine.

I want people to be honest, but experience has taught me that this isn't always the case.
I want people to be altruistic because I know that it is a system that works.

Expect is probably the wrong term in this case.

But for the record, I wouldn't support any law telling people to follow my standards.

oop.... is "instilling" in your students, "the best moral standards you know" really your job?

Although I should probably have said "encourage" rather than "instil", but, yes, it is when the moral standards of honesty, compassion, cooperation, accepting that people are different and the notion of fair play coincide with the preferred standards of the school system.

It's one of the things we agree upon.

In my view, a teacher who doesn't care about their pupils' ethics is a poor teacher.

 

[jarofthoughts]

I bow to your ethics...but... do you accept Krishna as your personal savour.

Not in the slightest. Guess I'm screwed then?

 

[Riverwolf]

Well supposedly if you don't you will suffer eternal torment. And if you do you will receive eternal joy. And of course you've been told those things since before you had the ability to reason. So those reasons enter into it as well.

If you believe in eternal punishment, then I'd call that beneficial, no? I do admit that too many people are born into specific ways of thinking without being given any chance to reason out for themselves if it works for them. (I'd apply this to other things besides religion, as well.) I think that when it comes to the religions that teach hellfire, is the person content overall, or overall living in hell for fear of eternal hell?

IOW, does the person constantly think of everlasting torment, or everlasting joy?

 

[Riverwolf]

Fully agree. :yes:

I am a "dyed in the wool" atheist and I hereby dare any believer to call me immoral.

- I never lie. (Not even to get a day off from work). Honesty is very important to me.
- I quit my job as a marketing executive to become a teacher which basically cut my paycheck in half because I wanted to do something that meant something to more people than just me.
- I do my best, every day, to teach my pupils about the worth of other people and instil in them the best moral standards I know.
- I never suggest any standards (moral or otherwise) to anyone that I am not able to uphold myself as I strongly believe in practising what you preach.
- I have never and will never cheat on anyone I am in a relationship with.
- I spend my vacations working in Kurdistan (Northern Iraq) helping rebuild their school system.
- I am a strong supporter of personal freedom and I think that anyone should be allowed to love whoever they want and that what consenting adults do between their sheets is none of my business.
- I am also a strong supporter of the freedom of speech and of ideas, and while I might disagree fervently with what you have to say I would die for your right to do so.

Now, go ahead.
Call me immoral.
Call my view of the world invalid.
If you can.

I call you immoral because you just bragged about your good works! :jester3: (I kid, I kid.)

I call you more of a man of God than many theists I can think of (myself included.)

 

[Riverwolf]

Not in the slightest. Guess I'm screwed then?

Nope. I think if Krishna would be so great as to save those who tried to murder him, He'd throw you a bone. ^_^

 

[Reverend Rick]

People who think they are the only one's who are right seldom are.

 

[jarofthoughts]

I call you immoral because you just bragged about your good works! :jester3: (I kid, I kid.)

I call you more of a man of God than many theists I can think of (myself included.)

He he... I'm not sure currying favour from people I've never met on an internet forum would do me much good in any case.

Jokes aside, of course, there is a personal side to all this as well, and I can genuinely say that I am a lot happier now than when I worked as a marketing executive. You might say my "bonus" is the light of understanding that pop up in my pupils eyes when they reach a new level of comprehension in some subject or another, and the knowledge that the work we do in Kurdistan may in time mean a lot to thousands of children makes it real easy to sleep at night.

For those who might be interested here is a link to Komak, the organisation I'm working with in Iraq (Apologies for the poor html. We're working on getting it fixed.): My Site
And here are some pictures from one of our trips: Copy of 102CANON
I would be the long haired bearded fellow on some of the pictures...

 

[futureplanet]

Yep. You are right about that rant...haha.

I mentioned Australian aboriginals purely as an example to frame the question. The details of the tribes and groups is irrelevant in terms of framing the question and no conjecture was made about their individual beliefs.
I will say the same for the Hindus. There are 1 billion hindus, but no doubt they have a variety of beliefs, as we see in virtually all religions (look at the variety of Jesus followers
!!, from Armish, Baptist, Catholic, etc. etc.)
The question is about mental justification. There are those that seem to have a universal view of god with respect to religions in general, and these are obviously not the literalists, but those that believe the detail is not as important as the concept.

Then there seems to be the other religious that pretty much use "it's truth for me", or "it's none of your business", or basically avoid answering or thinking about the question in too much detail, maybe because any form of rationalization is paramount to doubt, or their rationalization is such that it doesn't tackle the question in terms of the other religions and that they exist (which is the important point).

Looking forward to more responses, and thank you for those so far.

 

[Riverwolf]

I will say the same for the Hindus. There are 1 billion hindus, but no doubt they have a variety of beliefs,

You have no idea.

Then there seems to be the other religious that pretty much use "it's truth for me", or "it's none of your business", or basically avoid answering or thinking about the question in too much detail, maybe because any form of rationalization is paramount to doubt, or their rationalization is such that it doesn't tackle the question in terms of the other religions and that they exist (which is the important point).

Not necessarily. It could be that some of us believe that spiritual growth is like a mountain, and the various religions are like the various paths up to the peak.

Faith and doubt go together hand in hand; it's the reason it's called "faith." I don't "know;" I "believe;" I have "faith" in my path, "faith" in the teachings of the Sages, "faith" in the existence of God based on personal experience (which does not and cannot count as evidence), corroborating anecdotes that otherwise would be totally unreliable.