I appreciate you elaborating more of your story even though you didn't need to. I consider myself a good judge of character and yours is definitely not in question. I just want to say that healthiness is subjective to ones environment just like Utah, where I live, is filled with smog and I am most likely affected by it but don't realize it until someone from Oregon visits and gets emphysema after a couple days. You suggesting there is an atmosphere of tolerance to 'objectification' because it is so prevalent in today's society (restaurants, movies, ads,) and there are somewhat decent men who are participating is odd to me and it doesn't make me breathe easy, in fact it furthers the lie that it even has a place other than immoral. I don't have to tell you who *cough* (men) are benefiting mostly from it, but I did want to address the morality aspect.
I think there is a distinction between insidious, culturewide objectification (advertisements, catcalling, entitlement to time/conversation/not accepting “no” as an answer, etc.) and the conceptually necessary aspect of objectification inherent in something like an entertainment or service industry.
I agree the former is always bad, mainly benefits men at the expense of women, and leads to people forming unhealthy mental pictures of how to think about and treat women.
The latter can be healthy though: we objectify the ballerina because she dances for us, we objectify the bartender because she’s there to sling us drinks, and so on: it’s inherent in what these activities and jobs do that they are a person performing a function for our entertainment and edification: but we can be healthy, reasonable humans and see there is a person doing the job. It takes some kind of pre-existing problem not to see the person (perhaps because of the
former kind of objectification?)
Unfortunately, there is no gray to this, there is only black and white. I'm a man. As such, I don't walk into a gentleman's club to act like a gentleman as odd as it sounds.
No doubt, but so? This is what I was saying: it is possible for people to simply enter a strip club, enjoy drinks with their friends, enjoy the entertainment, and leave simply thinking that it was an enjoyable time. I daresay that’s how a majority of it went.
It may depend on location, but the people I saw were largely people that stayed after lunch (one of the clubs had a full kitchen, it was actually awesome. The wings were bomb) because they were drinking now and why leave? Bachelor parties, straight girls being ironic/funny (or maybe curious, who knows), business people (seriously), regulars that lived nearby and treated it mostly like a local dive bar. Lots of couples, perhaps trying to add a little spice (go home after and use that energy, basically). You’d get people that did come in alone and that’s where the ******** came from (but even then those were a minority of loners!)
It can just be harmless, dumb fun. Just like a motorcycle can be harmless, dumb fun. Some people choose to weave motorcycles in and out of traffic dangerously and that ruins lives, does that mean we should judge all motorcycle enthusiasts? I think the same applies here: there will always be ******** that ruin others’ fun by not being responsible and lighthearted about something, or addicts that need help (these I feel empathy for, the ******** I don’t).
BTW Gentleman's club was term used mostly for wives who wanted to think their husbands were doing something fraternal but instead they were mostly looking at other women. Such a misnomer! I think it's only crafty men that made you think they are seeing women as "people" but in reality they often go home to their wife or girlfriend and see her less as a person, bringing them back to the club the next night. It's a vicious toxin that's invisible. I mean and we're only talking about the legal stuff, which is a fine line from sex trafficking and the illegal stuff. The statistics are crazy to ignore. But again, I'm not directing any of this to you or your past. I'm glad that you found your value which we all have to do and the fact you are on a religious forum speaks for itself. I just wanted to express my concern about the seen and unseen dangers of 'objectification' because it has caused so much more pain than good for society.
I don’t think your heart’s in the wrong place at all, I’m glad to see this kind of energy against objectification <3
I just think there are nuances. Stripping and OF aren’t for everybody, certainly; but they are for some people. I found so much of my confidence by doing this. Now maybe I would have found it another way, but I guess I’m just saying that I don’t see any problem with how I did. (I know this wasn’t about me at this point, just adding my anecdote).
