Opinion on Wal-Mart to pull of of Washington D.C.

[Jeremy Mason]

Why would you want to get rid of a place where
1)You can buy groceries, a TV, and a shotgun under one roof
2)You can get it all for cheap
3)Handicapped and retarded people can get jobs
4)It's open 24 hours a day
I personally love Walmart. If it puts any small businesses in the gutter it's because Walmart is better. This is America, that's what it's all about.

I think you should take a look at this and get back with me...
[youtube]Jazb24Q2s94[/youtube]
Walmart: The High Cost Of Low Prices FULL MOVIE - YouTube

You wouldn't cut off an Olympic sprinter's leg because he's faster than you...

I'd only want to cut the sprinter's leg off if he repeatedly kicked me with it.

 

[Sunstone]

Capitalism doesn't need or obey government numbers.

That doesn't change the fact that the Federal Reserve and the Government try to maintain unemployment at around 4% for the sake of capitalism. As any first year economics student knows, full employment would raise the cost of labor, thus hurting the interests of the capitalist class.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I definitely think Wal-Mart should pull out of DC. I can't even imagine what type of horrendous offspring those two would create if DC got pregnant.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Well it certainly wouldn't work with that pessimistic attitude of yours... The only think keeping workers powerless is the fact that they think they're powerless. Whenever I want something from my boss, I go right up to him, demand what I want, and threaten to walk out on the spot if I don't get it (I currently work 4 different positions at my job). I have yet to lose my job, and I work for a good-size corporate chain restaurant. The problem with people today is that they don't have any balls.

I simply dissagree. Its easy to talk tough when you don't have children or don't have a good situation with your boss. Are you an important person in your workplace? can they easily fire you without having reprecussions? I doubt you are in the same scenario as many of these people. And your right. If everyone in the community, both those looking for the job and the multitude of people with jobs all banned together (kinda like a union) then they would have power. But it only takes a few to ruin that. Your fate is in the hands of others who are usually desperate.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

I think you should take a look at this and get back with me...
[youtube]Jazb24Q2s94[/youtube]
Walmart: The High Cost Of Low Prices FULL MOVIE - YouTube

That movie just reinforced what I said. Walmart has more to offer in one place than these small businesses do, so more people shop there. Your complaint is that they're "too good" of a business... If other businesses want to stay open, they have to offer good competition. That's how capitalism works; you either step up or shut up.

I'd only want to cut the sprinter's leg off if he repeatedly kicked me with it.

Walmart (the sprinter in this case) isn't "kicking" anyone. They just keep winning races, and obviously the losers are going to be bitter.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

That movie just reinforced what I said. Walmart has more to offer in one place than these small businesses do, so more people shop there. Your complaint is that they're "too good" of a business... If other businesses want to stay open, they have to offer good competition. That's how capitalism works; you either step up or shut up.

Specifically its about fighting the eventual problem it creates. I mean you get plenty of energy from junk food and it tastes great. Over the course of a day or two or even weeks you don't notice a huge difference. But a few years down the road you have high cholesterol, weight 300+lbs, have heart problems, can't exercise ect ect ect.

We need an informed public and consumers about how to keep our economy healthy. Yeah wallmart is great short term but it destroys economies long term. Thats why I advocate for large masses of wallmarts to go out of buisness. Why? Because they are harmful to our economy long term.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

I simply dissagree. Its easy to talk tough when you don't have children or don't have a good situation with your boss.

It's not my fault people have children... You make your bed, you lay in it. If you can't find the means to support children, don't have any.

Are you an important person in your workplace? can they easily fire you without having reprecussions?

Important? No. I'm a regular full-time hourly employee; I just make myself useful. If I were to be fired my boss would have to hire 3 more people to replace me, assuming they are new to the job. So it's cheaper for him to give me a raise.

I doubt you are in the same scenario as many of these people.

I think "many of these people" spend too much time feeling sorry for themselves and not enough time focusing on how to make it better.

And your right. If everyone in the community, both those looking for the job and the multitude of people with jobs all banned together (kinda like a union) then they would have power. But it only takes a few to ruin that.

It doesn't take "every single person". Just a group of people (preferably larger, but not necessarily) with the balls to make themselves heard, and the drive to make sure their demands are acted on. Never in history has EVERY SINGLE member of a certain group had to band together to have the demands of a majority met. Some people are just more willing to make things happen.

Your fate is in the hands of others who are usually desperate.

Your fate is in nobody's hands but your own. If you don't make enough at one job, find a second one. There is no shortage of ways to make money.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

We need an informed public and consumers about how to keep our economy healthy. Yeah wallmart is great short term but it destroys economies long term. Thats why I advocate for large masses of wallmarts to go out of buisness. Why? Because they are harmful to our economy long term.

Lazy competition destroys economies; not good business.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Lazy competition destroys economies; not good business.

in the first response I didn't quote I'll just have to disagree with you. I think its based totally in opinion.

You think those struggling are simply lazy. I choose to recognize the inequality for what it is. We'll just disagree and no amount of back and forth will change either of our minds so I say we should drop it.

On the second one though its actaully wrong. If everyone simply tried to break the system then capitalism fails. The only way wallmart can work is by having extremely cheap labor and cheaply made products made from around the world where factory labor laws are limited.

Buying from wallmart and taking advantage of the cheap prices means promiting the buisness that is screwing others in the process. Again its like living off junk food. there will be unhealthy concequences.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Buying from wallmart and taking advantage of the cheap prices means promiting the buisness that is screwing others in the process. Again its like living off junk food. there will be unhealthy concequences.

That's the equivalent of telling someone they can't play a sport anymore because they're too good and someone else should have a chance to win. If other businesses don't want to get screwed, they should find a better way to compete.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

That's the equivalent of telling someone they can't play a sport anymore because they're too good and someone else should have a chance to win. If other businesses don't want to get screwed, they should find a better way to compete.

No. that is the equivalent of telling someone they can't play a sport because they are using Steroids, not following the rules and sabotaging the others.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

No. that is the equivalent of telling someone they can't play a sport because they are using Steroids, not following the rules and sabotaging the others.

Walmart hasn't broken any laws, nor have they sabotaged anybody. People just like to shop there more. Your prejudice is showing...

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Walmart hasn't broken any laws, nor have they sabotaged anybody. People just like to shop there more. Your prejudice is showing...

I'm prejudice because I'm informed. I study economics for a living. I run numbers for businesses. What is legal and what is good for the economy are two totally different things. Walmart would not function if it paid its employees a living wage. They could not function without cheap Chinese labor. They could not continue doing what they do if we want a healthy middle class.

I also didn't say they broke laws? I am saying they are bad for the economy in every sense of the word and people that defend them have not yet come up with a reason to defend this. Its a choice of a good economy or walmart. It isn't specifically wallmart I dislike. Its the whole practice of abusing workers by paying them nothing. Its not illegal to pollute the world but we continually do it.

So yes I am very prejudice towards the practices that will destroy the American Economy in the long run. It already does so and we can see the effects of it now. The whole recession can be partially blamed on this.

 

[MoonWater]

If you don't make enough at one job, find a second one. There is no shortage of ways to make money.

I tried that a few times. Each instance resulted in an extreme amount of stress which led me to becoming extremely ill and caused my relationships with friends, family, and boyfriend to suffer. My last endevor led to me being so stressed that I started having anxiety attacks and had to go on anti-depressants. And once again my relationships suffered.

Asking someone to just get a second job if they aren't making enough is extremely callous, completely ignores a persons individual circumstances, and completely ignores the reprocussions the added stress will bring.

You know nothing of the lives of these people you condemn. You know nothing of their work ethic, know nothing of how hard they actually work, know nothing of their relationship with their employer, know nothing of the circumstances which led them to where they are, know nothing of their situation at all. So who are you to condemn as lazy people you know nothing about?

yes hard work is important and odds are you won't get anywhere at all without it, but hard work is not the only aspect of the equation. Not many people can afford to risk losing their job or take on a second and in fact often times even having two jobs isn't enough if you have kids.

And saying that if you can't afford it you shouldn't have kids is just asinine.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

I'm prejudice because I'm informed. I study economics for a living. I run numbers for businesses. What is legal and what is good for the economy are two totally different things. Walmart would not function if it paid its employees a living wage. They could not function without cheap Chinese labor. They could not continue doing what they do if we want a healthy middle class.

1)They're completely within their rights to pay anything equal to or above minimum wage. Nobody is forced to work at Walmart against their will. If an employee isn't getting a living wage, they should either get a second job or another job entirely.
2)Walmart is certainly not the only company to use cheap outsourced labor.
3)We can have a healthy middle class without Walmart changing their policies. Walmart employs only 1% of the US's working population.

I also didn't say they broke laws?

No. that is the equivalent of telling someone they can't play a sport because they are using Steroids, not following the rules and sabotaging the others.

Would "not following the rules" in this situation not equate to Walmart breaking laws in this analogy?

I am saying they are bad for the economy in every sense of the word and people that defend them have not yet come up with a reason to defend this.

Capitalism... Capitalist ideology focuses on the individual person/company, rather than the economy as a whole. The idea is that if everybody focuses on their own personal advancement, we will do better collectively. Of course this is debatable, but it's still a reason. I'd personally rather have Walmart than Socialism.

Its a choice of a good economy or walmart.

The economy was great under Clinton and Walmart existed...

It isn't specifically wallmart I dislike. Its the whole practice of abusing workers by paying them nothing. Its not illegal to pollute the world but we continually do it.

The workers are abusing themselves by not making more money. It's easier to blame the corporations than to look in the mirror, but in the end your quality of life is completely up to you.

The whole recession can be partially blamed on this.

Fractional reserve banking is to blame for the recession, in my opinion. All the changes of workplace ethic in the world won't fix the problem with how the money is created in the first place.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

I tried that a few times. Each instance resulted in an extreme amount of stress which led me to becoming extremely ill and caused my relationships with friends, family, and boyfriend to suffer. My last endevor led to me being so stressed that I started having anxiety attacks and had to go on anti-depressants. And once again my relationships suffered.

Asking someone to just get a second job if they aren't making enough is extremely callous, completely ignores a persons individual circumstances, and completely ignores the reprocussions the added stress will bring.

Someone's individual circumstances and feelings are neither my problem or the employer of said person's problem. I have no obligation to either help them or feel empathy for them. Stress is part of life (especially if you want to be successful); people have to learn how to deal with it.

You know nothing of the lives of these people you condemn. You know nothing of their work ethic, know nothing of how hard they actually work, know nothing of their relationship with their employer, know nothing of the circumstances which led them to where they are, know nothing of their situation at all. So who are you to condemn as lazy people you know nothing about?

I'm not condemning them or judging. I'm simply stating that if they don't have enough money, they should find a way to make more. Again, it's not my fault people can't pay their bills.

And saying that if you can't afford it you shouldn't have kids is just asinine.

Seems the most logical choice to me. What kind of life can you give a child that you can't provide for? Having children without thinking about that is irresponsible at best.

 

[Revoltingest]

Some people think the existence of Walmart is the problem, & want to regulate it away. But I say Walmart is the symptom. The real problem is that government creates a business climate (by regulation) which favors overseas production. If these people ever succeeded in crushing Walmart, the problem would remain, & they'd continue searching for other symptoms to crush. That won't end well.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

This goes back to my comment in the "what is a liberal" thread. People that protest outsourced labor in Nike jumpsuits...

 

[Revoltingest]

This goes back to my comment in the "what is a liberal" thread. People that protest outsourced labor in Nike jumpsuits...

My father (may he rest in anguish) was one of those.
He worked for Ford, & was a staunch "Buy American!" type.
But he sure loved those cheap Chinese tools at Harbor Freight.

I could always get his goat by asking which is an "American car"....
- A Ford Probe (made in Japan)
- A Toyota Camry (made in Ohio)

 

[Monk Of Reason]

1)They're completely within their rights to pay anything equal to or above minimum wage. Nobody is forced to work at Walmart against their will. If an employee isn't getting a living wage, they should either get a second job or another job entirely.
2)Walmart is certainly not the only company to use cheap outsourced labor.
3)We can have a healthy middle class without Walmart changing their policies. Walmart employs only 1% of the US's working population.

I know. Thats why I said that it wasn't Walmart specifically that I disliked. Its the whole process. It gets back to the fundamental thing that we will disagree on. You think that there are only poor because they are lazy or something similar. I think that the game of capitalism is rigged in America. Walmart is the perfect embodiment of the problem of overly cheap labor and cheap production prices. Every company that does this I feel is going to eventually harm us. Walmart is especially bad for our economy because it destroys the local economies and is the number 1 reason mom and pop stores are on the endangered species list. Its not that they simply refuse to compete with walmart but that they can't. They don't have the ability to outsource the way large corporations do. And this is exactly why we live in feudalism now. I used to say that we were headed towards a neo-feudalistic society but I honestly think we are in there now.

Would "not following the rules" in this situation not equate to Walmart breaking laws in this analogy?

It was an alayogy. Its what should happen if it was properly regulated. But its not so ....

Capitalism... Capitalist ideology focuses on the individual person/company, rather than the economy as a whole. The idea is that if everybody focuses on their own personal advancement, we will do better collectively. Of course this is debatable, but it's still a reason. I'd personally rather have Walmart than Socialism.

I would rather have a regulated capitalism than socialism. But walmart actually has contributed to our "socialist state". They and companies like it are the reason why we have so many poor and why wages haven't gone up. People aren't simply ball-less as you seem to imply. We haven't lost the ability to work hard. The game is different.

The economy was great under Clinton and Walmart existed...

We also had better regulation that helped maintain this good economy. Though our economy has been running towards this collapse since the 70's. It was well disguised till then. Also as you say walmart is only 1% of the economy. We still had more mom and pop stores back then. Walmart as well as every other massive corporation has increased dramatically in the last 13 years since Clinton.

The workers are abusing themselves by not making more money. It's easier to blame the corporations than to look in the mirror, but in the end your quality of life is completely up to you.

I cannot disagree with you more in the context in which you use this. To quote bill Maher in a meme that was used already earlier in this thread "If hard work equaled success then the country would be run by Mexicans with leaf blowers."
I have already laid out why it is different than what you say. I'm great that you have had some lucky breaks and good luck with your Lawyer career and I mean that from the bottom of my heart. But don't assume that your success story is the same as every other person who encounters hardships. Because its not and these problems are real. Do you think the entire nation of China, India, and Pakistan are all just self creating victims?

Fractional reserve banking is to blame for the recession, in my opinion. All the changes of workplace ethic in the world won't fix the problem with how the money is created in the first place.

Actually it can. The reason why our recession recovery is slow is because we have a massively weak middle class. An overwhelming majority of money is concentrated in the upper divisions of our society and the middle and lower class don't have the purchasing power to drive the economy. Our economy has ALWAYS been driven by the middle class and at no time has that not been true. If we calculate with inflation the middle class is poorer now than it has been since before the 70's. The first time we had a massive recession we were able to bounce back because we had a domino effect.

More people got some jobs. Thus the employees had more to spend which stimulated the economy which then created more jobs. Then it repeated till we were back to full strength and then some.

This time we got a few jobs but no one had any extra money to spend to stimulate the economy so the growth has been stagnate. There are a large number of people who work full time and people who work 2 part time jobs (sometimes more) and still don't make enough to re-stimulate the economy. The upper class alone cannot stimulate our consumer driven capitalistic society.
For us to have the kind of world dominating economy we once had we need to accept that things must be slightly more expensive and American made and those making it must make a living wage to pump money back into the economy.