Opinions on a cartoon (No, not THAT cartoon!)

[Valjean]

Why did the type size change?

 

[Buttercup]

I think it's a humorous cartoon but unfortunately many people don't pay enough attention to current events to know that the vast majority of Muslims don't feel that way. I mean...look how many people voted for Bush? Those might be the same people who believe that cartoon to be entirely true. Just kidding folks!

 

[Simon Gnosis]

The cartoon stereotypes Muslims and the cartoonist was no doubt well aware that many would find it offensive and insulting, but I think he illustrates a growing sentiment among westerners.

[SIZE=+0]When a prominent public speaker or cartoonist characterizes Muslims as violent or bellicose, the next day we begin reading stories of violent Muslim protests, church burnings and attacks on western civilians. The Irony of such a response cannot be missed, and only confirms the negative impression more and more westerners are forming of Muslims. The fact that the violence is mostly carried out by a radical fringe or that these self-defeating acts are condemned by by Muslim leaders does not so often make the headlines.[/SIZE]

Yeppers.

 

[Ciscokid]

I recall their being an artist that painted Jesus on the cross with a yellowish tint to it. I think the painting was called "**** Christ". I don't recall their being one violent action as a result. A lot of offended people [not me personally] but nothing burnt to the ground, no rioting or trashing of public property etc.

As I've said in other threads. Muslims are ok people, but some of them need to get a grip. You do NOT have a right to go through life and NOT be offended. Being physically attacked is one thing....but a cartoon? Get real.

 

[spacemonkey]

What are you talking about?

Would it be acceptable then to publish cartoons of Klu Klux Klan hanging Black people?
I mean by your logic, if I don't buy it I can't be offended by it?

Absurd..

As long as they aren't actually hanging black people, let them run whatever cartoon they want. Who are you to decide for everyone else what is permissable and what is not. If someone truly believes in free speach they should be willing to defend the right of others to say things they disagree with.

 

[Ciscokid]

Another GD doublepost!

 

[c0da]

Race and religion are often closely related, most christians are white, most muslims are arabic or semite, most Jews are well Jews, most Hindu's are Indians etc....so race is involved to a degree.

So? What you have just said means you could make a pretty good guess at somebodies religion if you know what their race is, nothing more.

Racism is a belief in the moral or biological superiority of one race or ethnic group over another or others

There is none of the above, at all, in the cartoon.

 

[universal_brother]

What do y'all think of this?

Offensive?
Accurate?
Funny?
Distasteful?

I think the bottom left one may be a bit off target, especially with the IPod used to represent the 'Modern World'. The other pictures themselves are also unfair and are stereotyping all Muslims as turban wearing Mujaheedin, but to be honest, the captions don't seem to far off, at least that's what it seems like to me.

I know there are individual Muslims who are incredibly angry at the actions of a minority of their fellow Muslims, and I'm sure I'd get an ear-full off RF's Muslim members if I suggested otherwise, but in this thread, I am talking about the Muslim community as a group, in particular the British Muslim community (even though the cartoon itself is from an American guy, I think).

Perceived stereotypes:--

1. Strereotype Toons of Blacks - This would be RACIST.
2. Stereotypes Toons of Jews - This would be Anti-Semetic.
3. Stereotypes Toons of Muslims - Very Funny....Ha Ha

There is still racism against Blacks, albeit covert.
There is still anti-semitism, albeit covert.
There is plenty of disguised religious hatred against muslims, but overt & covert!

Although it's funny, it's also derogatory to a whole social/religious group.

 

[universal_brother]

Islam's response?
Its a blatant generalisation, its a negative caricuture of an entire 'class' of pople.
It is portraying all Muslims as fanatics that have anger management issues, more than a little unfair and tantamount to racism.

You can't go around insulting people an expect them to laugh it off..especially with the current delicate situation with Iraq and Afghanistan..it just isnt' appropriate.

Thank You

 

[Fluffy]

What are some of the statistics that support Islam's violent response to the various things highlighted in the cartoon? I have heard vague references to rioting and the word "Muslim" thrown around a lot but I haven't seen any facts.

In the response to the cartoons and the pope's speech or whatever, what has been the death count, the number injured and the threats made by those involved? How many people have been involved and what percentage of their respective populations do they represent?

I can't really comment on the accuracy of this cartoon without seeing these facts.

I find the stereotypical depiction of Muslims in this cartoon to be unoffensive to me and I feel that if anybody is offended then that is their problem. I can totally understand any offense caused by the potentially inaccurate observations made in the cartoon, however. I think Djamila makes an excellent point when she says "The vast majority of Muslims have absolutely nothing to do with terrorism. A woman in Bosnia is not going to march in the streets against car bombings in Iraq any more than a woman in Croatia is going to do. She'll calmly speak out against it at every turn, in a manner as disconnected from that part of the world as she is, and that's it." I have never looked at it that way before but I think that this explains why the expectations implied by the cartoon should be seen as unreasonable.

Having said that, I fail to understand the scale (of which, as I've said, I am uncertain as to the extent of) of the response that has been suggested in the media. My faith has been insulted both politely and impolitely and I have always found that I can swallow any misgivings I may have felt and befriend those who offended me, either intentionally or otherwise. I cannot understand why it is a big deal and therefore I am forced to conclude that if their is going to be any resolution, it must come from those who are offended and not those who are causing offence.

 

[Simon Gnosis]

There is none of the above, at all, in the cartoon.

Thats your opinion.
I disagree completely.

 

[Simon Gnosis]

Thank You

No problem.

These cartoons seek to label and divide us...this is wrong.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I find it abit funny, allthough it does generalize alot. Muslims aren't to blame, it's the Muslim extremist, a.k.a. terrorist that just happen to be Muslims.

 

[c0da]

Thats your opinion.
I disagree completely.

No, Simon. It isn't opinion.

I have always understood racism to be defined as the belief that one race is inherently superior to another. Others might say racism is having a fear, distrust or hatred of somebody based on their race.

You're argument is that a cartoon in which the cartoonist is having a dig at Muslims is racist. It would only be racist if Islam actually was a race, or if the cartoon made specific reference to the race of the man in the cartoons. Islam is not a race, it is a religion and the cartoon makes no such reference to race, so it cannot be racist, therefore "opinion" does not come in to the picture.

 

[Laila]

It is all about respect. Muslims have deep regard and respect for Prophet Muhhamed (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him).

The cartoons were drawn to provoke and hurt the Muslim people. If you think about it, the majority of muslim people are Eastern or Middle Eastern. Now these type of people are very emotional and react from the heart, they show there emotions loud and clear. They don't generally keep quiet and stab in the back like some other races.
So the response to the cartoons was expected but of course I'm not justifying it. There is no place for violence in Islam.

Now, do you know that muslims also protested against the film 'The Da Vinci Code'. Here the Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) was made a mockery of. I know that Dan Brown's work is fictional but however, it still makes a mockery of religion.

Muslims are deeply hurt by the cartoons as it slanders the Prophet Muhhamed's (SAWS) commendable character. If it was true we would except it but to blatantly lie or defame someones examplary life, well that is disgraceful.

 

[Laila]

I've just realised that I'm not referring to the cartoons on this thread!! Doh - it's been a long day!

Generalising and stereotyping all muslims as crazy is being prejudiced. In fact it is an insult to Islam, but I guess if you don't care about insulting all muslims throughout the world (i.e. being prejudiced) then you would find the cartoons funny. It is all a matter of perception.

 

[Laila]

You're right, and I'm not expecting mass marches against car bombings etc. from Muslims, but loud, clear and forceful attempts by prominent Muslim leaders to distance themselves and their community from such atrocities is something that is not being heard here in Britain.

I'm a British Muslim and have heard (on TV) and read (in the papers) about the Muslim Counsel of Britain rejecting all forms of violence. Such atrocities are always declared wrong by Muslims in Britain.

 

[c0da]

I'm a British Muslim and have heard (on TV) and read (in the papers) about the Muslim Counsel of Britain rejecting all forms of violence. Such atrocities are always declared wrong by Muslims in Britain.

Yes, I've heard thecondemnations of the 7/7 attacks, but not condemnation of the protests about the cartoon in Jyllands Posten, or the protests over the recent outrage about the Pope's lecture. I've also heard Muslim leaders saying that violence is not a part of their religion, but still no condemnation of individual incidents.

 

[Flappycat]

The cartoons were drawn to provoke and hurt the Muslim people.

No. They were drawn to show that terrorists make Islam look really really stupid. I hate to break it to you, but terrorists make Islam look really really stupid.

If you think about it, the majority of muslim people are Eastern or Middle Eastern. Now these type of people are very emotional and react from the heart, they show there emotions loud and clear.

Which would make them dangerous. I hold them to the same standard of behavior as anyone else, whether they come from my own neighborhood or from the moon.

They don't generally keep quiet and stab in the back like some other races.

The irony here kills me.

So the response to the cartoons was expected but of course I'm not justifying it. There is no place for violence in Islam.

Tell that to the people who are being violent. They don't seem to have gotten the news. They must have been asleep the day this subject was covered.

Now, do you know that muslims also protested against the film 'The Da Vinci Code'. Here the Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) was made a mockery of. I know that Dan Brown's work is fictional but however, it still makes a mockery of religion.

What little babies, from both groups of religions. They expect everyone in the world to be reverent and respectful toward their prophets and gods. Even if there were a mohommad, he wasn't a prophet, and there is no such thing as Allah, God, angels, devils, or any of that other assorted nonsense. It's so ludicrous it gives me heartburn, and you expect me to show reverence for it? I generally hold my tongue for the sakes of others' feelings, but, when someone attacks me for how I feel about their religion, they have crossed the thin line between peace and nuclear war. I can be savage when challenged on this subject.

Muslims are deeply hurt by the cartoons as it slanders the Prophet Muhhamed's (SAWS) commendable character.

I mean, dear god, part of being an adult is understanding that not everyone is going to happen to agree with you or share your reverences or superstitions. How old are some of these people? They should have gotten over this as teenagers.

If it was true we would except it but to blatantly lie or defame someones examplary life, well that is disgraceful.

Not everyone thinks as highly of this historical figure as you do. And really, the guy died centuries ago. Let the dead rest, already. You guys are the ones who keep bringing it up, after all. You're just going to have to realize that your opinions and beliefs don't have any special protection from reproach or criticism, at least not in this society.

Heck, even Christians, the dominant religion in the West, get flamed night and day, seven days a week, all year long. Do you realize how many cartoons there have been of the Pope? I mean, really, the Muslims have gotten it pretty easy so far. This sort of thing is something the Muslim community is going to have to get used to. This is the only way they'll escape ridicule in the future.

And, for future reference, inflammatory content sells papers.

 

[universal_brother]

No. They were drawn to show that terrorists make Islam look really really stupid.

Flappy, it says "Muslim" in the cartoon - NOT "Terrorist"!
I think you read it like this: MUSLIM=TERRORIST

I hate to break it to you, but terrorists make Islam look really really stupid.

Are you implying terrorists were suppose to make a faith look good?
You're referring to TERRORISTS again! But the toons posted mention MUSLIMS!
You don't make any distinction between 'MUSLIM' and 'TERRORIST'.

So, if I put 'muslim' in place of 'terrorist' in your sentences:-
"I hate to break it to you, but MUSLIMS make Islam look really really stupid."
Correct me if Im wrong?
If Im wrong, why refer to "terrorists" when the cartoon refers to "Muslims"?

Which would make them dangerous. I hold them to the same standard of behavior as anyone else, whether they come from my own neighborhood or from the moon.

The irony here kills me.

Tell that to the people who are being violent. They don't seem to have gotten the news. They must have been asleep the day this subject was covered.

What little babies, from both groups of religions. They expect everyone in the world to be reverent and respectful toward their prophets and gods. Even if there were a mohommad, he wasn't a prophet, and there is no such thing as Allah, God, angels, devils, or any of that other assorted nonsense. It's so ludicrous it gives me heartburn, and you expect me to show reverence for it? I generally hold my tongue for the sakes of others' feelings, but, when someone attacks me for how I feel about their religion, they have crossed the thin line between peace and nuclear war. I can be savage when challenged on this subject.

Didn't you say earlier about dangerous?
"Which would make them dangerous.I hold them to the same standard of behavior as anyone else..."
And you are a....erm....a "Militant" Atheist !

You're just going to have to realize that your opinions and beliefs don't have any special protection from reproach or criticism, at least not in this society.

Now you're confused about what is criticism, and what amounts to an insult.
If you're ok with these insults, then you will have no qualms about being racist and
religious descrimination.

Heck, even Christians, the dominant religion in the West, get flamed night and day, seven days a week, all year long. Do you realize how many cartoons there have been of the Pope? I mean, really, the Muslims have gotten it pretty easy so far. This sort of thing is something the Muslim community is going to have to get used to. This is the only way they'll escape ridicule in the future.

I have sympathy then for my Christian brethren, who get rediculed 24/7 in their own countries, all faiths should get protection from hatred,
especially from "Militant Atheists"!!