Oregon campus shooting

[Revoltingest]

Artifact analysis, looking at records, reading articles from the time, there is actually quiet a good amount of information about it. Granted recording keeping was quiet as good then, but that wouldn't be enough to account for the discrepancy. Even mass shootings. The real cowboy and "Wild" West just do not compare to the stories we tell. What we think of today is really nothing more than the setting for America's own mythical legends and heroes (we have Cowboys in the West during the mid-19th century rather medieval knights in dangerous forests) that didn't become a widespread belief in the early 20th century when the Western genre, especially in literature, began gaining an enthusiastic audience. And the image of the cowboy is very heavily and very deeply rooted in modern American culture.

You list tools to determine information, but this doesn't show that the information itself is cromulent.
I'm skeptical of the claim that we're more violent than the wild west.

 

[Godobeyer]

I know someone who dead from an accidental shooting because he wasn't properly educated about guns. I also had a boss who lost a friend from an accidental shooting. They don't make it in the news that much, but it's kinda scary how many preventable deaths we have from people not knowing enough about guns.
In America, we have this idea that if you sacrifice security for freedom, you deserve neither. However, people do not fight against other regulations like they do guns. We support enhanced automobile safety, we like work-place safety standards, and we even have some strict building codes that tell us exactly what can and cannot go into a building, how the wiring must be installed, and often require code regulations that are designed to accommodate local natural disasters (such as Florida having building codes that have hurricanes in mind). But when it comes to guns, we go nuts. Even things that have nothing to do with guns, we go on about how the governments was to take our guns and criminalize legal gun owners. We're very paranoid about it, and very adamant that we have to have a gun to protect ourselves.

I feel like having gun is just imitation issue , more than protection .

as Soviet Union imitated USA for had atomic bomb

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You list tools to determine information, but this doesn't show that the information itself is cromulent.

It is accurate. The Cowboy and the Wild West is an American legendary myth. It's our own take on stories such as those that involve Knights and Samurai. He's our version of an epic hero that was as real as you and me, and we are very quick to defend this myth in the face of contradictory evidence. We tend to not like the facts that dispel violence in general; Edward Gein is known more by myth than reality, Elizabeth Bathory has a reputation that far exceeds her deeds, and Vlad III, the "real life" Dracula, as if he wasn't bloody enough, is known more by myths and exaggerations that came from the Germans and their newly invented printing press than reality.
http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?a=803
In a book-length survey of the “West was violent” literature, historian Roger McGrath echoes Benson’s skepticism about this theory when he writes that “the frontier-was-violent authors are not, for the most part, attempting to prove that the frontier was violent. Rather, they assume that it was violent and then proffer explanations for that alleged violence” (1984, 270).
In contrast, an alternative literature based on actual history concludes that the civil society of the American West in the nineteenth century was not very violent. Eugene Hollon writes that the western frontier “was a far more civilized, more peaceful and safer place than American society today” (1974, x). Terry Anderson and P. J. Hill affirm that although “[t]he West . . . is perceived as a place of great chaos, with little respect for property or life,” their research “indicates that this was not the case; property rights were protected and civil order prevailed.

 

[McBell]

No problem. It gets a little hazy for some other immediate ones I come across. Apparently, a number of states allow for private entities to disallow firearms on their own premise, provided they provided the correct sign by regulation and posted it up. I'm not sure if this counts.

In Indiana there are some locations I am not allowed to carry.
Schools (unless I remain in my vehicle), court houses, post offices, ANY place that has a sign that says no gun, or no weapons, or no firearms, etc.
So those places I would say are gun free zones because unless you are LEO or retired LEO, you are not allowed to carry there.

 

[Godobeyer]

Did you even bother to look up the statistics on this?

Alcohol & Drug Stats
Alcohol-induced deaths: 29,001 (2013)
Drug-Induced Deaths: 46,471 (2013, both legal and illegal drugs)
Cocaine overdose deaths: ~5,000 (2013)
Heroin overdose deaths: ~8,500 (2013)

Firearm Stats
Homicides: 8,454 (2013)
Suicides: 21,175 (2013)

Looking at these numbers (for 2013) alcohol and drugs accounted for over 75 thousands deaths. Firearms accounted for a total of 29 thousand deaths. Which means drugs and alcohol were 2.5 times deadlier than firearms. Even just looking at heroin we see that it accounts for more deaths and the number of homicides by firearms. And going by your logic, the number of overdoses by heroin should be 0 because it is banned.

No, I do not.


Sources:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/suicide.htm
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Causes_of_Death
http://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/u...able_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2009-2013.xls

thanks for this information , yes i care

i am with must fight anything hurt humans

our discuss OP is about when some hurt others by gun

I bet over my country there i ZERO accident of shoot or crime by gun , over this year , except some fighting against terrorists in some areas .

inspite that we had tradition gun , it's used just for celibrate in Wedding as tradition , without bullet it's just gunpowder , just sound

check this Algerian Wedding

 

[Jainarayan]

True, but all the cops have to do is claim they smelled something. New York has stop and frisk, and it was brought up in Indianapolis.

Yes, and I think unfortunately the status quo is rising. The NJ state supreme court is allowing cops to search vehicles without warrants. Of course there has to be more than good probably cause, but the fact remains that it's escalating.

 

[Godobeyer]

For my opinion ban gun is over Muslim countries for long time ago (since independence) , Moroco and Algeria, Tunisia ,Egypt , Saudi Arabia, Lebnon, Syria before the crisis , i am not sure about Turkey and Indonisia and Iran but very probably they ban gun ....etc

 

[dust1n]

In Indiana there are some locations I am not allowed to carry.
Schools (unless I remain in my vehicle), court houses, post offices, ANY place that has a sign that says no gun, or no weapons, or no firearms, etc.
So those places I would say are gun free zones because unless you are LEO or retired LEO, you are not allowed to carry there.

Are you of the opinion that private business should be allowed to operate prohibiting the firearms of their choice, or that the individual's freedom to carry a firearm supersedes an individual's freedom to prohibit firearm's in their business?

 

[Father Heathen]

I think taking note of Japan's gun system is an important thing when discussing gun violence and police brutality.

"Country X doesn't have freedom Y, thus doesn't have to deal with any of freedom Y's downsides." What a revelation.

But no, I don't think the fact that freedom can have downsides is a good reason to give up having freedom.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gunman...egon-shooting-attorney-general-says-1.3252645

How sad

It's related to increase in loneliness.

http://spectator.org/articles/59230/loneliness-american-society
"more than a quarter of the respondents — one in four — said that they have no one with whom they can talk about their personal troubles or triumphs."

Usually in the news it says the killer was a loner.

 

[Father Heathen]

IF USA decide to ban guns
so USA is become empty of guns ,by what the criminals will kill more people ?

A ban wouldn't make guns magically disappear. This is what we're trying to get through to you, but for some reason you struggle to grasp this.

I am bet each of you ,at least know someone shoted or being killed by gun in family , or neighborhood , friend .

Nope, not at all. Not every community within the U.S. is an inner city ghetto. And the U.S. is large and vast, so despite the frequent stories that make international news it doesn't happen everywhere at all times.

 

[Father Heathen]

As I predicted, we're fixating on inanimate objects while sidestepping the motivations and psychological causes behind these sort of violent actions.

I would rather explore the human mind and get some real understanding and perhaps real solutions rather than wade through the same ol' regurgitated garbage.

 

[Revoltingest]

It is accurate. The Cowboy and the Wild West is an American legendary myth. It's our own take on stories such as those that involve Knights and Samurai. He's our version of an epic hero that was as real as you and me, and we are very quick to defend this myth in the face of contradictory evidence. We tend to not like the facts that dispel violence in general; Edward Gein is known more by myth than reality, Elizabeth Bathory has a reputation that far exceeds her deeds, and Vlad III, the "real life" Dracula, as if he wasn't bloody enough, is known more by myths and exaggerations that came from the Germans and their newly invented printing press than reality.
http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?a=803
In a book-length survey of the “West was violent” literature, historian Roger McGrath echoes Benson’s skepticism about this theory when he writes that “the frontier-was-violent authors are not, for the most part, attempting to prove that the frontier was violent. Rather, they assume that it was violent and then proffer explanations for that alleged violence” (1984, 270).
In contrast, an alternative literature based on actual history concludes that the civil society of the American West in the nineteenth century was not very violent. Eugene Hollon writes that the western frontier “was a far more civilized, more peaceful and safer place than American society today” (1974, x). Terry Anderson and P. J. Hill affirm that although “[t]he West . . . is perceived as a place of great chaos, with little respect for property or life,” their research “indicates that this was not the case; property rights were protected and civil order prevailed.

I still see no evidenced argument that we're now more violent.

 

[Valjean]

I found this interesting graphic in today's Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/oct/02/mass-shootings-america-gun-violence

America's a crumbling empire. Americans are in a constant panic about terrorism and "threats to the homeland." Terrorism preparedness warnings are broadcast regularly. The military is lionized as the only bulwark against the Hun. "Warrior" is synonymous with "hero," The police have followed suit, transforming into a home paramilitary.

How is your average Joe going to defend himself against the terrorists, the invasion of illegal immigrants and a government determined to cede sovereignty to the UN, disarm the citizenry and incarcerate dissenters?

America's response: The remedy to any threat is counterthreat. The weak and powerless are prey. What but a gun and home arsenal can conceivably counter the growing chaos?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I still see no evidenced argument that we're now more violent.

We really aren't. Humans have always been violent brutes.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I still see no evidenced argument that we're now more violent.

http://www.perc.org/articles/old-west-violence-mostly-myth
Old West violence mostly myth
Once again as summer progresses, tourists are trying to recapture the romance of the West. Recalling the violent images fostered by Hollywood, they seek out ghost towns, ride horseback at dude ranches and take part in exciting re-enactments of conflicts among vigilantes, sheriffs, cowboys and Indians.
What they don't realize is that the violence of the West is largely a myth.
Yes, there were isolated examples of violence, but the true story of the American West is one of cooperation, not conflict.
My colleague Terry Anderson and I have been studying the history of the West for nearly 30 years. We found that wherever "people on the ground" got together, they generally found ways to cooperate rather than fight.

That's a sign at Dodge City, 1878.
http://libertarianstandard.com/2010/04/07/how-wild-was-the-wild-west-in-fact/
In Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides. This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year.
In Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, not a single person was killed in 1869 or 1870.
The violence of the Wild West is greatly exaggerated, and what we think of it is nothing more than fantasy and myth (You can thank the likes of Zane Grey).

 

[Godobeyer]

A ban wouldn't make guns magically disappear. This is what we're trying to get through to you, but for some reason you struggle to grasp this.

who said that guns magically will disappear ?

of course it's was not disappear magically , that's all required long time and efforts from citizens and security (police,FBI...)

that's hurt much the producers of guns in USA and shops of guns, but in the end the commun saftey of all civilians is what concerne.

so that's up to your security service to collect most of guns , that's will be it duty .

in that time you will never hear " Freeze , put your gun down"

Nope, not at all. Not every community within the U.S. is an inner city ghetto. And the U.S. is large and vast, so despite the frequent stories that make international news it doesn't happen everywhere at all times.

how about you, do you know someone get shot or died by gun ?

in my entire life (here) i never heard that a friend or family memeber shot by gun , or even read it in news .

 

[Ken Brown]

It's sort of funny about guns. My sister used to live in a "rural" area and a scared woman knocked on her door one afternoon saying her boyfriend was chasing her. My sister wouldn't let her in, but called 911 and the operator after hearing what was transpiring asked my sister if she had a gun, and to get it.

In Switzerland, most of the populace is armed, and their murder rate in 2014 is according to this:

In 2014 there were 173 attempted and completed homicides, of which 18 involved firearms (10.4%). 41 of them were completed, therefore Switzerland had a murder rate of 0.49 per 100,000 population, the lowest raw figure and lowest rate for 33 years, since the start of the nationwide coordinated collection of statistical data, despite a strong growth of inhabitants (from 6.4 million to 8.1 million, +27%) over the same period.[15]

So how can we be sure that having or owning guns is the problem? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[McBell]

Are you of the opinion that private business should be allowed to operate prohibiting the firearms of their choice, or that the individual's freedom to carry a firearm supersedes an individual's freedom to prohibit firearm's in their business?

I believe that each business should be allowed to choose if they will allow guns or not.
I also respect their right to be gun free zones by not going there.

 

[McBell]

who said that guns magically will disappear ?

of course it's was not disappear magically , that's all required long time and efforts from citizens and security (police,FBI...)

that's hurt much the producers of guns in USA and shops of guns, but in the end the commun saftey of all civilians is what concerne.

so that's up to your security service to collect most of guns , that's will be it duty .

in that time you will never hear " Freeze , put your gun down"


how about you, do you know someone get shot or died by gun ?

in my entire life (here) i never heard that a friend or family memeber shot by gun , or even read it in news .

They cannot even enforce the laws currently on the books, what makes you think they can enforce a complete ban?