Oregon campus shooting

[Shadow Wolf]

Because Cowboys in past had guns , and Amercians now had guns too

I noticed you said you learned about American culture through movies. The truth is, Cowboy Westerns couldn't be further from the truth. The so-called "Wild West" was not very violent, people weren't trigger happy, and there wasn't really that much violence going on. Many cities had gun restrictions, including no carry laws and bans, and even travel advisers of the day wrote it is ill-advised to carry a gun into the city because it will cause trouble for yourself and others. The truth is, today is considerable much more wild, violent, and deadly than the days of the "Wild West."

ban guns: is remove this efficace weapon from hand of criminals .

Countries like Canada and Sweden have guns, but not the problem with gun violence. But, what they do have are more strict gun laws.

I am almost sure the employers as police in USA will agree that gun ban for civilians .

They typically do not, but they do frequently support better laws and regulations regarding guns, such as required training before someone can use them and better background checks.

There are many millions of guns out there already in the black market...most used for crimes were illegally obtained

If you look through the records, there is a frightening trend of the guns being legally acquired, especially in mass shootings.

Really?
Please list some of these not in gun free zones shootings.

There have been two at military bases this year. There are definitely lots of guns in those places. When we look at school shootings they almost always happen where the perpetrator went to school. Work place shootings are typically carried out by former/disgruntled employees. And allowing guns isn't going to work, because future shooters will plan accordingly to maximize damage in the shortest amount of time. If a high school has armed security guards, what is to prevent a shooter from opening fire while the halls are crowded with students going from one class to the next, which would make it difficult for these armed guards to move around?

 

[Revoltingest]

The truth is, today is considerable much more wild, violent, and deadly than the days of the "Wild West."

How is this known?

 

[Wirey]

Why discuss any of this? There'll be another one any minute now.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

And, as usual, another increase in firearm sales can be expected. I hope lobbyists for the firearms industry get good holiday bonuses this year, because they've shown over and over that they've earned it.

 

[Aquitaine]

I watch the Western movie (action, romance , comedy ...etc) , i almost know very well Americans way of life .

I am very sure that many of Western (in USA) agree with ban of gun to civilians .

I don't mean to be rude, but if you're basing your idea of Western cultures off movies then your perception will be very inaccurate.

 

[esmith]

There have been two at military bases this year.

Just a minor correction about firearms on military installations. Military personnel are not allowed to carry firearms unless it is their job (Military Police for instance) So basically military installations are basically "gun free zones". I'm not sure if the policy has changed since I was in, but if I had a personal firearm I had to turn it into the armory and check it out when I wanted it, or keep it off-base.

 

[Mister_T]

But guns wouldn't magically disappear with a ban. Instead they would flood the black market. The only people who would comply and surrender their guns aren't the ones who are a threat to begin with. It would make them easier prey, though.

That's something people outside the U.S. don't realize. They often cite Australia as an example of effective firearms ban, but Australia is surrounded by ocean and don't share a border with countries like Mexico, where guns, drugs etc. are going in and out of our borders daily despite being outlawed/illegal.

 

[Kirran]

I watch the Western movie (action, romance , comedy ...etc) , i almost know very well Americans way of life .

I am very sure that many of Western (in USA) agree with ban of gun to civilians .

Godobeyer, as we have agreed before, much of the media's portrayal of any society is dramatised, exaggerated, distorted. Movies are not trying to accurately portray the society depicted.

You will only ever have a hugely warped and inaccurate perception of the society of 'the West' if you rely on movies to give you that perception.

 

[McBell]

I did not mean that , thats missunderstood .

I said it's good idea to remove all guns from everyone except police .

the criminals are suppose civilians ?

Criminals are people who break the law.
if you ban guns from everyone other than LEO, then LEO and criminals are the only ones who will have guns.

What have I misunderstood?

 

[esmith]

Maybe if the media stopped giving out the person's name or using their picture it would remove one reason for some of these actions. Of course we know that this will never happen, how would they fill their news programs with interviews with anyone that was associated or had any contact(however minor)with them
From: http://nypost.com/2015/10/01/oregon-gunman-sought-fame-for-killing-idolized-ira-and-nazis/

Chris Harper-Mercer, the gunman who went on Thursday’s rampage at an Oregon college, idolized the Nazis and the IRA, despised organized religion — and talked of how killing could bring a person fame.

“I have noticed that so many people like [Vester Lee Flanagan] are alone and unknown, yet when they spill a little blood, the whole world knows who they are,” Harper-Mercer wrote in a blog post, referring to the man who in August murdered a reporter and a cameraman on live TV in Virginia, according to CBS News.

“A man who was known by no one is now known by everyone. His face splashed across every screen, his name across the lips of every person on the planet, all in the course of one day. Seems like the more people you kill, the more you’re in the limelight.”

 

[McBell]

Really?
Please list some of these not in gun free zones shootings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby's_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ysidro_McDonald's_massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binghamton_shootings

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Unruh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Aurora_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Edward_Pough

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_County_massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Silka

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/101_California_Street_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westroads_Mall_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage_nursing_home_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Seal_Beach_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Island_Rail_Road_massacre

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Tucson_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Hialeah_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_IHOP_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Collier_Township_shooting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daingerfield_church_shooting

etc...

Thank you.

 

[Godobeyer]

Criminals are people who break the law.
if you ban guns from everyone other than LEO, then LEO and criminals are the only ones who will have guns.

What have I misunderstood?

that's not definitly run in every country

We had criminals but they don't had guns , not in every country the gun is reachable item .

its seems gun is very reachable tool in USA, that's why you think criminals "only ones who wil have guns"

my point is remove guns WITH it's available to reached by criminals , by collecting , it's take very long time processus .

-shut down the gun shops
-then next collect guns (lega) and illegal
-make law punish who possess it

 

[Godobeyer]

Godobeyer, as we have agreed before, much of the media's portrayal of any society is dramatised, exaggerated, distorted. Movies are not trying to accurately portray the society depicted.

You will only ever have a hugely warped and inaccurate perception of the society of 'the West' if you rely on movies to give you that perception.

i agree movies are not 100% represent (mirror) the culture of others .

Movies and series and media on general could help to give at least 70% of way of living of other society .

since 1999 until now, i am chating with Westerns , i have families ,friends living in USA and France ...etc

I can say i know much about Western way of life , more than Westerns know about my way of life .

 

[dust1n]

Thank you.

No problem. It gets a little hazy for some other immediate ones I come across. Apparently, a number of states allow for private entities to disallow firearms on their own premise, provided they provided the correct sign by regulation and posted it up. I'm not sure if this counts.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

The USA has an established gun culture that is supported by the majority of the population.
These mass school and other shootings have been going on for years.
The belief is that it is nothing to do with the gun culture or the freedom to possess fire arms.

The arguements seem to be, that there are not enough arms in the places where shootings happen, for defence, or that if arms had not been available then some other weapon would be used in their place.

Very few such mass killings do take place in other countries, where they do, the perpetrators also had access to firearms.

The more obvious mass killing device, the bomb, is only rarely used in a non terrorist situation.
Perhaps a bomb is not sufficiently personal or is more difficult to obtain and use, for these deranged killers.

It seems the number of deaths is insufficient to balance the emotional attachement Americans have for their guns.
Or as in most of Europe, they would have been long ago greatly restricted and controlled.
The occasional accidental, revenge or mass killing, seems to be regarded as more acceptable than greater restriction on peoples "passtime pleasure"

These killings will undoubtedly continue.
Of course when it comes to people power the dead don't have votes.

 

[Godobeyer]

I think taking note of Japan's gun system is an important thing when discussing gun violence and police brutality.

How about Algerian system , we ban guns , and ban even knifes , and item used to kill people .

here IF the police checked someone ,and found him carry a knife to fight with, he may judged for that and pay taxe .


carrying gun may cost jail and taxe .

just suppose :
the crimes by knifes in Algeria maybe about 1 to 2 per day , IF guns available that would be more , maybe reach more than 50 victimes per day.

 

[Godobeyer]

IF USA decide to ban guns
so USA is become empty of guns ,by what the criminals will kill more people ?

I am bet each of you ,at least know someone shoted or being killed by gun in family , or neighborhood , friend .

 

[Kilgore Trout]

The USA has an established gun culture that is supported by the majority of the population.
These mass school and other shootings have been going on for years.
The belief is that it is nothing to do with the gun culture or the freedom to possess fire arms.

The arguements seem to be, that there are not enough arms in the places where shootings happen, for defence, or that if arms had not been available then some other weapon would be used in thier place.

Very few such mass killings do take place in other countries, where they do, the perpetrators also had access to firearms.

The more obvious mass killing device, the bomb, is only rarely used in a non terrorist situation.
Perhaps a bomb is not sufficiently personal or is more difficult to obtain and use, for these deranged killers.

It seems the number of deaths is insufficient to balance the emotional attachement Americans have for their guns.
Or as in most of Europe, they would have been long ago greatly restricted and controlled.
The occasional accidental, revenge or mass killing, seems to be regarded as more acceptable than greater restriction on peoples "passtime pleasure"

These killings will undoubtedly continue.
Of course when it comes to people power the dead don't have votes.

When you combine a powerful, profit-oriented lobbyist arm with a deeply-ingrained cultural ideology, there's little chance in even rational and moderate questioning, or debate, ever gaining any real traction.

Thus, the cycle of increased mass shootings, followed by increased gun sales, followed by increased mass shootings, seems to have no foreseeable end in sight.

 

[Jainarayan]

this process would take long times maybe 10-20 yeras , that disappear guns from the hand of civilians .

That's fantasy.

 

[Jainarayan]

here IF the police checked someone ,and found him carry a knife to fight with, he may judged for that and pay taxe .

We have the Fourth Amendment... prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures. Unless the police have probable cause or there are exigent circumstances, they can't just walk up to a person and say "papers please" or frisk them.