Organized religion = evil.

[FatMan]

I opine that It would behoove one who writes about religion to not be confused about the nature of his subject.

I agree heartily.

 

[MOZedek]

religion is and always will be a singularly or collectively a means expression of deism or the lack of it. Religion is the offshoot of deism which is a very, very HUMAN even Natural state of consciousness.
Therefore there canot be one without the other-Even the pagans go into there temple to worship and the atheist to is religious in all his ways- trying to disapprove the existance of God
I therefore think the true question is - is there or has there ever been an areligious existance- devoid of deism, religion or forces fighting against these- I think not- therefore I conclude Man is a religious entity- that is prove i think of "GOD"

 

[Booko]

It is a simple explanation. People here seem to routinely confuse what religion is. The OP is just another example of it being displayed.

In the minds of many, religion is no more than a set of rules put in place by some control freaks to control everyone else.

Which is like reading a cook book and thinking it's all about chicken, when there are other sections on appetizers, veggies, soups and dessert.

Weird.

 

[FatMan]

Which is like reading a cook book and thinking it's all about chicken, when there are other sections on appetizers, veggies, soups and dessert.

I'm finding you to be the antithesis of the ChikFil-A cows

 

[Booko]

I'm finding you to be the antithesis of the ChikFil-A cows

 

[bmtsandwich]

This quote from Christopher Hitchens illustrates one of his main points*:



Thoughts? Reactions?

*The entire book is this polemical and vituperative, and also absolutely wonderful. I recommend it to everyone, atheist and theist alike. The man writes like an angel, and hates religion with a burning passion.

You are, unfortunately, missing the big picture Autodidact. Being so deeply involved in religion is just as bad as being so deeply involved in distorting, bashing, and trying to get rid of religion.
We are at a point in time where it is better to just understand, and accept both sides of the argument and realize, at this point in time with what we know about everything, that there is a possibility for both because, after all, we do not know very much. Instead of being so aggressive about religions you should find a common ground in which you can find with someone and build upon that.

Thank you.

-BMT

 

[Random]

To me, religion is not a dirty word. It is a movement of the people towards a transcendent goal, that is all. @ its best level of expression, religion embodies a divine culture which keeps man in touch with his higher sense of reality and morality: a permanent countercultural influence.

I don't see why some believers and non-believers seek to demonize religion, as if that is going to solve our problems. Perhaps these people are merely petty, low-minded and lacking in quality discernment.

 

[Booko]

I don't see why some believers and non-believers seek to demonize religion, as if that is going to solve our problems. Perhaps these people are merely petty, low-minded and lacking in quality discernment.

People often react strongly to efforts to oppress them. While clearly this is not the case with all atheists, and heck, maybe not most, and I have no way of knowing what Mr. Hitchens' background is with religion might be, still it's a perfectly normal thing if someone rejects religion that was jammed down their throat as a child and if additionally they perceive it to be harmful and damaging.

Certainly Hitchens sees the harm. And his examples that he gives most eloquently do demonstrate that there is some harm.

My only beef with him is his blind spot about the other side, where religion brings people together in greater harmony and where it takes an active role in assisting people.

Religion can tear down and it can build also.

As an atheist, I understood this. I really don't understand why Hitchens does not.

 

[Popeyesays]

Straight Man: "I don't have to come here for abuse!

Comic: "Oh? Where do you usually go?"

 

[Random]

People often react strongly to efforts to oppress them. While clearly this is not the case with all atheists, and heck, maybe not most, and I have no way of knowing what Mr. Hitchens' background is with religion might be, still it's a perfectly normal thing if someone rejects religion that was jammed down their throat as a child and if additionally they perceive it to be harmful and damaging.

Certainly Hitchens sees the harm. And his examples that he gives most eloquently do demonstrate that there is some harm.

My only beef with him is his blind spot about the other side, where religion brings people together in greater harmony and where it takes an active role in assisting people.

Religion can tear down and it can build also.

As an atheist, I understood this. I really don't understand why Hitchens does not.

It might simply be that he is an ambitious man moving circles where it profits one to bash religious beliefs. Most scientists observe this decorum these days, rather ignorantly IMO...

 

[Booko]

It might simply be that he is an ambitious man moving circles where it profits one to bash religious beliefs. Most scientists observe this decorum these days, rather ignorantly IMO...

No, I get that Hitchens is quite sincere in his opinions.

Honestly, I think he makes many excellent points. There are some things that happen in the name of religion that keep people ignorant, or at each others' throats, and if Hitchens wishes to criticize that and oppose ignorance, I say more power to him.

I draw the line where his brush gets waaay too broad. All religions are not guilty of things he says. All of any particular religion is not guilty of the things he decries.

Some parts of some religions have habits of doing things he criticizes. I'm not even convinced that "some" is a hefty percentage.

While Hitchen's scholarship in the particulars is excellent, his scholarship in general is quite shoddy.

He has done the scholarly equivalent of an alien that lands in the Sahara proclaims the entire Earth a desert.

The thing is, the man has obviously got a first-rate mind, so I have a very difficult time making excuses for his lapse in wisdom.

Well, except that wisdom and intelligence are not the same things, I suppose.

 

[A. Ben-Shema]

As an atheist, I understood this. I really don't understand why Hitchens does not.

I did not know that you were an atheist. As you so often quote from Baha'u'llah, I thought you followed his religion?

 

[Random]

I did not know that you were an atheist. As you so often quote from Baha'u'llah, I thought you followed his religion?

Sharon used to be an atheist many years ago, but since has changed and found a faith reasonable to her.

 

[Smoke]

Violent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism and tribalism and bigotry, invested in ignorance and hostile to free inquiry, contemptuous of women and coercive toward children: organized religion ought to have a great deal on its conscience.

As an atheist, I really wish Hitchens were a Christian. Much as I dislike him, though, that's pretty much what I think about the three oldest Abrahamic religions.

 

[Quiddity]

It's a common outcry of non-theist and theist alike. It's nothing new that organized religion can do such things. What is odd, is to simply attach such things only to oraganized religion. As if others were immune to it.

 

[athanasius]

It's a common outcry of non-theist and theist alike. It's nothing new that organized religion can do such things. What is odd, is to simply attach such things only to oraganized religion. As if others were immune to it.

Good point!

 

[A. Ben-Shema]

It's a common outcry of non-theist and theist alike. It's nothing new that organized religion can do such things. What is odd, is to simply attach such things only to oraganized religion. As if others were immune to it.

I think the point is, that religions preach peace and love, while others might not.

Peace & Love

 

[Quiddity]

I think the point is, that religions preach peace and love, while others might not.

Peace & Love

I don't know what is worse. That some don't preach peace and love or that some do and don't live up to it at times. As I see it, one is much more fixable then the other.

 

[Runt]

Violent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism and tribalism and bigotry, invested in ignorance and hostile to free inquiry, contemptuous of women and coercive toward children: organized religion ought to have a great deal on its conscience.

Such gross overgeneralization is never good. I agree that organized religion can, at times, be destructive. It may even be more harmful than beneficial. But this does not negate any and all of the good which has arisen from organized religion.


Hitchens reminds me a good deal of some of my more... passionate atheist friends. There are moments when the wrongs committed in the name of religion make one believe that the world would simply be better off if organized religion bit the dust. I know the feeling; I’ve been there before, and even now I’m not entirely positive that I was wrong, for all that I remain a part of an organized religion and continue to celebrate what good religion has brought the world and hope it will continue to help and stop harming. For as much as I sometimes appreciate things like charity organizations, hospitals, some of the early scientific discoveries of religious people (such as Mendel) and other beneficial offshoots of religious organizations, I nevertheless cannot help but think, “Isn’t all of this possible without religion?” It’s a hard question...

To love God is to espouse religion, in some form...that's what religion is at it's base: Loving God.

One may love God and be unjust toward other human beings at the same time. This is because religion is not merely belief or personal expression of belief.... it is organized expression of belief. It can be many people acting in unison out of their love for God, and it can be many people reacting in fear and hatred toward those who are different...

 

[A. Ben-Shema]

I don't know what is worse. That some don't preach peace and love or that some do and don't live up to it at times. As I see it, one is much more fixable then the other.

Yet one is at least honest, and the other totally hypocritical.

Peace & Love