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Origin of the Bible (Branch Thread)

ElishaElijah

ElishaElijah

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The Kilted Heathen said:
The common excuse given, but no. It is listed as the ancestry of Joseph, and Mary's lineage was culturally irrelevant. It would not have been recounted. And even then, you have all the others to rectify.
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Relevant because Jesus was from the lineage of David and the tribe of Judah. That’s prophecy.
 
blü 2

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
ElishaElijah said:
Paul before:
“But Saul began to destroy the church. Going from house to house, he dragged off both men and women and put them in prison.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:3‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Paul eyewitness account and conversion:

“Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples. He went to the high priest and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked. “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭9:1-6‬ ‭NIV‬‬
“But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.” Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, and after taking some food, he regained his strength. Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭9:15-19‬ ‭NIV‬‬
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Surely you don't need me to tell you that visions don't count as anything but personal mental phenomena, often suggesting pathological causes.

They no more stand as eyewitness accounts of anything than would my dream (if I had one) of seeing Julius Caesar.
 
ElishaElijah

ElishaElijah

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blü 2 said:
Surely you don't need me to tell you that visions don't count as anything but personal mental phenomena, often suggesting pathological causes.

They no more stand as eyewitness accounts of anything than would my dream (if I had one) of seeing Julius Caesar.
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Paul didn’t see a vision of Jesus Christ, he had a conversation with Jesus. Then there are visions and dreams from God as well, these are described many times in Scripture, ex. Joseph, Daniel,Peter.

““And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions. Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days. I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the Lord has said, even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.”
‭‭Joel‬ ‭2:28-32‬ ‭NIV‬‬
 
Riders

Riders

Well-Known Member
Didn't the early origins of the old testament Genisis stories start in an earlier civilization like Samoa? Did this not include creation and flood stories about Noah?
 
The Kilted Heathen

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
ElishaElijah said:
Why Does Jesus Have Two Different Genealogies (Matthew 1:1-16; Luke 3:23-38)?
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Seen it and heard it before, and it doesn't factually explain the contradiction in the slightest. Not only are there 15 more generation listed between David to Joseph as told in Luke, it's not the only theory trying to rectify this discrepancy. Not only is Mary's father repeatedly named as Joachim, but nowhere is this popular suggestion/theory explicitly stated in the Gospels. There is no indication to it whatsoever. Lastly, and yet again, Jewish Law does not accept ancestral claims through maternal ancestry. Mary's lineage does not matter by Jewish law, which Jesus upheld as the Law (Matt. 23:1-3).

And you still have the various other contradictions to even touch upon. Even if Jesus' lineage remained, those contradictions will remain, and the Gospels will still be in disagreement.
 
ElishaElijah

ElishaElijah

Return
The Kilted Heathen said:
Seen it and heard it before, and it doesn't factually explain the contradiction in the slightest. Not only are there 15 more generation listed between David to Joseph as told in Luke, it's not the only theory trying to rectify this discrepancy. Not only is Mary's father repeatedly named as Joachim, but nowhere is this popular suggestion/theory explicitly stated in the Gospels. There is no indication to it whatsoever. Lastly, and yet again, Jewish Law does not accept ancestral claims through maternal ancestry. Mary's lineage does not matter by Jewish law, which Jesus upheld as the Law (Matt. 23:1-3).

And you still have the various other contradictions to even touch upon. Even if Jesus' lineage remained, those contradictions will remain, and the Gospels will still be in disagreement.
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I don’t have any problem in the least and you do. All my questions and doubts were answered at the cross when I received Christ and God gave me His Spirit. Good talking to you
 
The Kilted Heathen

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
ElishaElijah said:
I don’t have any problem in the least and you do. All my questions and doubts were answered at the cross when I received Christ and God gave me His Spirit. Good talking to you
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A pious cop-out, but not evidence to rectify the inaccuracies and errors in your scripture, which stand as evidence that it was written by no greater than human hands, pushing an agenda.
 
ElishaElijah

ElishaElijah

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The Kilted Heathen said:
A pious cop-out, but not evidence to rectify the inaccuracies and errors in your scripture, which stand as evidence that it was written by no greater than human hands, pushing an agenda.
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Hey man, thanks for starting this conversation too.
What’s the cop out? You heard it all and I have time.
 
The Kilted Heathen

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
The cop-out is that when shown evidence, you blind yourself to it and dismiss it as "you have all the evidence you need through faith" or some such.
 
ElishaElijah

ElishaElijah

Return
The Kilted Heathen said:
The cop-out is that when shown evidence, you blind yourself to it and dismiss it as "you have all the evidence you need through faith" or some such.
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I used to think the same as you with the same kind of talking points until I got saved and met God for myself. It was a sobering moment when I saw how arrogant and prideful I had been. When God showed me the truth I didn’t think like that anymore.
 
The Kilted Heathen

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
ElishaElijah said:
I used to think the same as you with the same kind of talking points until I got saved and met God for myself. It was a sobering moment when I saw how arrogant and prideful I had been. When God showed me the truth I didn’t think like that anymore.
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And now begins the proselytizing...
 
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