Original Sin

[1137]

Here is something that bugs me and I would like to discuss. It seems that Christianity (perhaps other religions also, I am unsure) teaches that we are born with "original sin", which is inherited because of Adam and Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden. WE are held responsible for the sins of SOMEONE ELSE. I cannot see how this belief makes sense.

First, if god is loving and forgiving, why would he hold an everlasting grudge against humans? If it is so that we must accept Christ, it seems kind of like a set up...

Second, why should we even be held responsible for the sins of another in general? Nobody is responsible for the sins of another in any other case outside of this one. Why is this one held against all of humanity? Again, it seems like a set up.

Discuss

 

[Sleeppy]

Well I know that we inherit quite a bit from our predecessors.. This isn't true?

 

[1137]

Well I know that we inherit quite a bit from our predecessors.. This isn't true?

Genetically yes, but spiritually this is the only case of spiritual inheritance I have ever seen.

 

[Sleeppy]

Genetically yes, but spiritually this is the only case of spiritual inheritance I have ever seen.

Why do you say it's spiritual?

 

[1137]

Why do you say it's spiritual?

Because sin is tied to spirituality... Hell and Heaven are not physical concepts, they are spiritual. Your physical body does not go to either, but your soul. And since sin has a great influence on where your soul goes, it is spiritual.

 

[InChrist]

Here is something that bugs me and I would like to discuss. It seems that Christianity (perhaps other religions also, I am unsure) teaches that we are born with "original sin", which is inherited because of Adam and Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden. WE are held responsible for the sins of SOMEONE ELSE. I cannot see how this belief makes sense.

First, if god is loving and forgiving, why would he hold an everlasting grudge against humans? If it is so that we must accept Christ, it seems kind of like a set up...

Second, why should we even be held responsible for the sins of another in general? Nobody is responsible for the sins of another in any other case outside of this one. Why is this one held against all of humanity? Again, it seems like a set up.

Discuss

The Bible does not say we are responsible for the sins of Adam and Eve or anyone else. It says that because we are human we inherit the sin nature or propensity to sin. Everyone expresses in one way or another their sinful nature and commits their own sins.There is a big difference.

 

[Skwim]

The Bible does not say we are responsible for the sins of Adam and Eve or anyone else.

We just get to suffer the consequences of it: death.

 

[InChrist]

We just get to suffer the consequences of it: death.

Death, while not a good thing, is probably better than living an endless life immersed in sin and its effects in this world.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Death, while not a good thing, is probably better than living an endless life immersed in sin and its effects in this world.

Since we get no choice in this, it's a punishment.

 

[nnmartin]

WE are held responsible for the sins of SOMEONE ELSE. I cannot see how this belief makes sense.

First, if god is loving and forgiving, why would he hold an everlasting grudge against humans? If it is so that we must accept Christ, it seems kind of like a set up...

I think it's fair to say that nearly everyone is born selfish, greedy and corrupt to some degree - it's just human nature.

however, if we follow the teachings of the Bible then we can change into better people.

Satan has entered into human DNA and needs to be fought off by believing in Christ.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

I think it's fair to say that nearly everyone is born selfish, greedy and corrupt to some degree - it's just human nature.

I often wonder exactly how responsible the concept of Original Sin is for actively promoting that in humans.

In other words, the overwhelming presence in our culture of the idea that we are already guilty of something; how much does that horrible pressure create sin itself?

Without the idea, which i find false and unjust anyway, we would all be much better off.

 

[Thief]

The Bible does not say we are responsible for the sins of Adam and Eve or anyone else. It says that because we are human we inherit the sin nature or propensity to sin. Everyone expresses in one way or another their sinful nature and commits their own sins.There is a big difference.

This is the good stuff.

 

[Thief]

Death, while not a good thing, is probably better than living an endless life immersed in sin and its effects in this world.

This however needs correction.
We were never meant to live forever...physically.

This life is only a means to create unique souls.
Then back to God we go.

 

[nnmartin]

HH: I think we are all born sinful.

look at a group of young children, when they play you can see the unpleasant competitiveness, spitefulness and other attributes from a young age. Even 5 year olds bully each other at school.

Humans just have a lot of unpleasant traits unfortunately - religion seems to help manage them to some degree.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

The Bible does not say we are responsible for the sins of Adam and Eve or anyone else. It says that because we are human we inherit the sin nature or propensity to sin. Everyone expresses in one way or another their sinful nature and commits their own sins.There is a big difference.

There's no difference. The presence of that sinful nature is a direct punishment for Adam and Eve's transgression. You are simply rewording it to avoid this obvious problem. Because you recognize it, and realize it's actually unjust.

We would not have the propensity to sin, were it not for this punishment.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

HH: no, I think we are all born sinful.

look at a group of young children, when they play you can see the unpleasant competitiveness, spitefulness and other attributes from a young age. Even 5 year olds bully each other at school.

Humans just have a lot of unpleasant traits unfortunately - religion seems to help manage them to some degree.

Of course you think that.

My point is, you think that because the idea is introduced to you at a young age, and thus you view all humans, as you state here yourself, as inherently 'bad'. Eventually that pressure is going to cause you to act badly anyway, because your own psyche hates itself. Its dehumanizing. And since you will be penalized anyway, might as well commit the crime, right?



Cart before the horse in your reasoning

 

[nnmartin]

you are taking the Adam and Eve thing too literally.

see them as the archetypes of the perfect human - they only exist on an abstract plane of existence from which we are descended.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Here's an interesting exercise: Google up any or several cases where a child was psychologically abused from a very young age by some crazy parent, who tells them all the time they are worthless and dirty. Does the victim of such abuse ever grow up to be an angel? No, of course they don't.

We have all been under the subtle influence of this kind of abusive relationship for a thousand years.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

you are taking the Adam and Eve thing too literally.

see them as the archetypes of the perfect human - they only exist on an abstract plane of existence from which we are descended.

Literally? lol, you know I am merely talking in the abstract; I don't take this myth seriously in any measure whatsoever. There's no such thing as Original Sin.

How can I be taking it literally when you are the one saying we are inherently sinful?

 

[nnmartin]

people are sinful through being humans - all to do with the ego.

Everyone's ego needs massaging - one of the ways in which we survive - however for most people the best massage comes from trampling on someone else's , I guess it makes us feel good.

this condition was inserted into the human DNA system by Satan around the time of Adam and Eve.