Original Sin

[1137]

There are no contradictions in the Bible, only contradictions and misunderstanding in the minds of finite humans reading it. I am not making any argument on behalf of a right religion. I believe religion to be a distraction.

I suggest that you check this out, and remember that blatantly and knowingly lying is a sin.

A List Of Biblical Contradictions

 

[idav]

I think it's fair to say that nearly everyone is born selfish, greedy and corrupt to some degree - it's just human nature.

Aside from being in gods image? We have all sorts of urges that are god instilled like the need to eat and procreate It is by no means a perfect system. The only aspect that really makes us corrupt is that we sometimes know better and do bad anyway. Nature in general seems to be corrupt but we are supposed to be better role models. God made it that way by cursing everything on this planet.

 

[Sleeppy]

Because sin is tied to spirituality... Hell and Heaven are not physical concepts, they are spiritual. Your physical body does not go to either, but your soul. And since sin has a great influence on where your soul goes, it is spiritual.

The thing is.. our inheritance from Adam is physical, not spiritual. There are quite a few passages that glorify the spirits of the prophets, like Elijah, and tell of John the Baptist being filled with the Holy Spirit from birth.

If it's as you say, no one ever reached "enlightenment" as you think of it. Not even Jesus, who is without sin. Even He had the physical inheritance from Adam, but if He also had a spiritual inheritance from Adam, He would have never been who He was.

 

[1137]

The thing is.. our inheritance from Adam is physical, not spiritual. There are quite a few passages that glorify the spirits of the prophets, like Elijah, and tell of John the Baptist being filled with the Holy Spirit from birth.

If it's as you say, no one ever reached "enlightenment" as you think of it. Not even Jesus, who is without sin. Even He had the physical inheritance from Adam, but if He also had a spiritual inheritance from Adam, He would have never been who He was.

I was always taught it was a spiritual death we inherited. That is why we had to be baptized and accept Christ. If you are suggesting the the bible I have lies, I will readily accept such a theory! But if the bible is the truth, then the death is spiritual.

I never said Jesus did not reach enlightenment. In fact, I have always said the opposite. It seems likely to me that Jesus did reach enlightenment. After all he seems to have been a mystic. If Jesus did not accomplish anything spiritual, why would the make up so much stuff covering up spiritual truth with Jesus himself at the center?

 

[InChrist]

I suggest that you check this out, and remember that blatantly and knowingly lying is a sin.

/quote]



Do you really think a website with a list of Bible contradictions promoted by secularists who oppose God and the Bible is accurate? Anyone can take scriptures out of context and make them appear to contradict or say whatever they want them to say. The scriptures are to be read with sincerity seeking the truth, not with ulterior motives. I have checked out many of these websites.

It is the Bible which says that lying is a sin...but you don't accept the Bible.

 

[1137]

Do you really think a website with a list of Bible contradictions promoted by secularists who oppose God and the Bible is accurate? Anyone can take scriptures out of context and make them appear to contradict or say whatever they want them to say. The scriptures are to read with sincerity seeking the truth, not with ulterior motives. I have checked out many of these websites.

It is the Bible which says that lying is a sin...but you don't accept the Bible.

Well since the site lists exactly what the bible says, then either it is a reliable source or the bible itself is not. All the site holds is what the bible says, and you have already claimed the bible to be truth. If you read the site, it specifically tries to keep the versus in context, and leave the picking and choosing to the followers.

1. You believe the bible is truth
2. the bible says lying is a sin.
Therefore, you believe lying is a sin.

I personally know that the bible is not truth, and the whether lying is bad or not is dependent on the specific situation.

 

[Sleeppy]

I was always taught it was a spiritual death we inherited. That is why we had to be baptized and accept Christ. If you are suggesting the the bible I have lies, I will readily accept such a theory! But if the bible is the truth, then the death is spiritual.

I never said Jesus did not reach enlightenment. In fact, I have always said the opposite. It seems likely to me that Jesus did reach enlightenment. After all he seems to have been a mystic. If Jesus did not accomplish anything spiritual, why would the make up so much stuff covering up spiritual truth with Jesus himself at the center?

Quote what you are referring to from the Bible.

I know that you call him "enlightened." That's my point. There would be no enlightenment at all, if we spiritually inherited death/corruption. Just as the body cannot inherit the Kingdom, because of it's corruption, neither would the spirit.

 

[Willamena]

So... bad behaviour creates inheritable traits?

Lamarckism dies hard, apparently.

Today we call it epigenetics, and it's alive and well.

 

[Me Myself]

We are all born sinful because a couple of humans that are NOT us effd up.

Yes, we ARE paying for someone else´s sins.

And no, it doesn´t make any sense that we should also accept someone else´s redmption for it, what makes REAL senses is that we ACTUALLY be measured for what WE do instead of inheriting underserved unrequested flaws.

I don´t have to ACCEPT redemption for a punishment I DIDN´T diserve.

 

[waitasec]

I don't believe it is that God did not want us to be aware or have understanding of good and evil, which He would have taught humans to understand in His own good time and way. I believe He did not want humans to learn about sin by participating in it, which they did and we do.

think about that though...
if he did not want us to participate in it then why give us the option of participating? it's the idea of having free will to decide for our selves is what he didn't want

 

[1137]

I know that you call him "enlightened." That's my point. There would be no enlightenment at all, if we spiritually inherited death/corruption.

Exactly why original sin is obviously false. We haven't spiritually inherited sin, and original sin is not true because of your very argument. Thank you for supporting my position

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Here is something that bugs me and I would like to discuss. It seems that Christianity (perhaps other religions also, I am unsure) teaches that we are born with "original sin", which is inherited because of Adam and Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden. WE are held responsible for the sins of SOMEONE ELSE. I cannot see how this belief makes sense.

First, if god is loving and forgiving, why would he hold an everlasting grudge against humans? If it is so that we must accept Christ, it seems kind of like a set up...

Second, why should we even be held responsible for the sins of another in general? Nobody is responsible for the sins of another in any other case outside of this one. Why is this one held against all of humanity? Again, it seems like a set up.

Discuss

We are the result of the past, therefore we inherit the actions of those in the past.

We do not, however, inherit their guilt.

 

[InChrist]

I suggest that you check this out, and remember that blatantly and knowingly lying is a sin.

A List Of Biblical Contradictions

[FONT=&quot]Jim Meritt's List of Bible Contradictions: Answer Key[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The following replies are to alleged Biblical contradictions cited by Jim Meritt (not a Bible scholar, but an oceanographer) on the web page, "A List of Biblical Contradictions" at Atheism. I've covered most of his entries on this page; now as I have developed this website as an encyclopedia, we turned this into a matter of brief comments on individual points made uniquely by Meritt, followed by links to solutions to contradictions.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2. War or Peace?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now answered here.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]3. Who is the father of Joseph?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We refer our reader to Glenn Miller's exposition on this subject.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]4. Who was at the Empty Tomb?:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now answered here.[/FONT]


Continue reading at:
http://www.tektonics.org/

 

[Sleeppy]

Exactly why original sin is obviously false. We haven't spiritually inherited sin, and original sin is not true because of your very argument. Thank you for supporting my position

The 'spiritual inheritance' part of it.

 

[waitasec]

The 'spiritual inheritance' part of it.

curious, what position did you not support?

 

[Plato]

Here is something that bugs me and I would like to discuss. It seems that Christianity (perhaps other religions also, I am unsure) teaches that we are born with "original sin", which is inherited because of Adam and Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden. WE are held responsible for the sins of SOMEONE ELSE. I cannot see how this belief makes sense.

First, if god is loving and forgiving, why would he hold an everlasting grudge against humans? If it is so that we must accept Christ, it seems kind of like a set up...

Second, why should we even be held responsible for the sins of another in general? Nobody is responsible for the sins of another in any other case outside of this one. Why is this one held against all of humanity? Again, it seems like a set up.

Discuss

Here's some good stuff to look into on this topic.....Original Sin is really the....
'Doctrine of Original Sin'.
It was a created 'doctrine' never part of original Christianity.
First suggested by Irenaeus c.200AD as a tool to win the debate with the non Christian 'Gnostics' of the time.
It was really created and spread by Augustine of Hippo 386AD a long time Manichaen (a Persian religion of warring light and dark gods that taught the world, humans, and society were all evil and sinful and belonged to the dark god because they were made that way).
Many scholars think the Doctrine of Original Sin is just Manichaeism rewritten in Christian form by Augustine (who had just converted from it to Christianity c.382AD) and who twisted the Adam and Eve myth.
That in his writings he needed to explain why there was sin and evil in the world/ why humans acted evilly and not knowing Christianity/ Judaism very well reached back to his nearly life long pagan Manichaen roots to do it (because humans and the world were created that way, this time through the first man Adam who passed on his 'evil' to all his decendants at birth).
If you google 'doctrine of original sin' 'manichaeism' etc. all this stuff comes up for great reading.

 

[Sleeppy]

curious, what position did you not support?

The consequences of Adam's sin were physical, not spiritual.

 

[waitasec]

The consequences of Adam's sin were physical, not spiritual.

was the physical death for a & e a consequence of sin?

 

[Looncall]

I find it uproariously funny that people talk of the Adam and Eve myth as something that really happened. In this day and age!

As for original sin, that is an obvious scam cooked up by clerics and that villain Paul to get control over their followers by instilling an attitude of morbid guilt in them.

 

[Sleeppy]

was the physical death for a & e a consequence of sin?

As far as I know.