Original Sin

[Sleeppy]

Just let me get this straight:

I don´t have to believe in the sin that Adam did and I did not for me to be BORN naturally INCAPABLE of not sinning.

BUT I do need to believe in the IMPOSIBLE TO PROVE redemption of his punishment done by Jesuschrist of this sin that I never asked for nor could have chose not to inherit for me to not suffer this injustice.

If a perfect God made this system, let me tell you I am not impressed.

Do you say that you inherited an injustice?

 

[Me Myself]

Do you say that you inherited an injustice?

I am saying that it is unjust for me to inherit the consequence of a sin I did not commit. I don´t believe I inherited this injustice because I don´t believe the doctrine of original sin to be anything but bull, but I do am saying that if it were true (which makes no sense, but oh well) then I do would have unjustly inherited a punishment.

You can´t punish people for doing things they are incapable of not doing. If sin is part of my nature without me having done anything for it to be so, then it is completely unfair to punish me for it. Specially when this allmighty being could have created me withouut sin if he wanted, so it is technically his fault that I was created prone to sin.

 

[Sleeppy]

I am saying that it is unjust for me to inherit the consequence of a sin I did not commit. I don´t believe I inherited this injustice because I don´t believe the doctrine of original sin to be anything but bull, but I do am saying that if it were true (which makes no sense, but oh well) then I do would have unjustly inherited a punishment.

You can´t punish people for doing things they are incapable of not doing. If sin is part of my nature without me having done anything for it to be so, then it is completely unfair to punish me for it. Specially when this almighty being could have created me withouut sin if he wanted, so it is technically his fault that I was created prone to sin.

If you don't believe it, then no complaint.

You'll always be burned if you rest your hand on a hot stove, regardless of whether you knew better or if it was intentional.

 

[waitasec]

The sacrifice for all sin.

The physical body is predisposed for sin. Like being hurled into a downward spiral, until something stops us.

then what you are saying is, god set adam up to fail.

Christ is what can and will stop us. Then we turn back into the upward direction.


It seems to me - my own thought - that anyone in their right mind would follow God. It's where all benefit is maintained. I'm not sure where Satan came from or why, but the faith of Adam and Eve couldn't withstand him. Perhaps, through our inheritance, we are forced to see that our own effort is not enough. Here we have problems with water deprivation, global warming, sickness and disease, starvation, social retardation and wars.. economic collapse. They keep reoccurring. And no one cares that much, as long as they're the ones surviving.

isn't that like creating a virus and then getting the credit for providing the
antidote for it? or blaming a baby for being ignorant of the danger of putting a marble in their mouth?

I'm not sure how many of us will go onto the next age, where Christ rules. Maybe its actually all of us. Maybe those who aren't allowed to the next age, will be allowed into the one after. I'm still contemplating it all.

i suppose at the end of the day, if one feels like they are doing the best they can with what they have, what else is there other than to follow ones own integrity? that is what's most important...imo.

 

[Me Myself]

If you don't believe it, then no complaint.

You'll always be burned if you rest your hand on a hot stove, regardless of whether you knew better or if it was intentional.

I can complain all I want

My arguments are based on God giving a ****.

If you want to discuss only with people that share your believes you might want to re-start this thread in another part of RF.

 

[Sleeppy]

I can complain all I want

My arguments are based on God giving a ****.

If you want to discuss only with people that share your believes you might want to re-start this thread in another part of RF.

No. I'm not saying you can't complain about what you would consider a scenario.. Debate all you want. I'm saying, there's no complaint for something you don't believe actually happened. It wasn't a jab, just a statement.

 

[Me Myself]

No. I'm not saying you can't complain about what you would consider a scenario.. Debate all you want. I'm saying, there's no complaint for something you don't believe actually happened. It wasn't a jab, just a statement.

I don´t really get the statement honestly. Probably a wrong statement? because I am in fact complaining

 

[Sleeppy]

then what you are saying is, god set adam up to fail.


isn't that like creating a virus and then getting the credit for providing the
antidote for it? or blaming a baby for being ignorant of the danger of putting a marble in their mouth?



i suppose at the end of the day, if one feels like they are doing the best they can with what they have, what else is there other than to follow ones own integrity? that is what's most important...imo.

No. We were succeeding, until we went against God.

God didn't create sin. Adam and Eve weren't like babies, they knew how to follow the command given, babies obviously don't.

 

[Sleeppy]

I don´t really get the statement honestly. Probably a wrong statement? because I am in fact complaining

About something you're viewing hypothetically.

My statement was referring to your view of reality.

 

[Me Myself]

No. We were succeeding, until we went against God.

God didn't create sin. Adam and Eve weren't like babies, they knew how to follow the command given, babies obviously don't.

He created a system that permited sin to be genetical, while salvation is not.

According to your belief, his incompetent management of Adam and Eve´s betrayal caused me to be born with an imposibility of purity, and even then be found guilty for this lack of purity unless I believe without any reasonable evidence in a specific doctrine and person of salvation.

The system sucks. The God cannot be perfect.

 

[Sleeppy]

He created a system that permited sin to be genetical, while salvation is not.

According to your belief, his incompetent management of Adam and Eve´s betrayal caused me to be born with an imposibility of purity, and even then be found guilty for this lack of purity unless I believe without any reasonable evidence in a specific doctrine and person of salvation.

The system sucks. The God cannot be perfect.

You're giving me claims I never had.

 

[Me Myself]

You're giving me claims I never had.

If I did, by all means correct me

 

[nnmartin]

Every Christian belongs to a denomination.

do they?

that's news to me

how about if you never go to church?

 

[Me Myself]

Every Christian belongs to a denomination.

The denomination of being christian? What do you mean?

 

[Sleeppy]

He created a system that permited sin to be genetical, while salvation is not.

According to your belief, his incompetent management of Adam and Eve´s betrayal caused me to be born with an imposibility of purity, and even then be found guilty for this lack of purity unless I believe without any reasonable evidence in a specific doctrine and person of salvation.

The system sucks. The God cannot be perfect.

Sin isn't genetic. Salvation isn't earned - it's free.

Perfection is possible, just not with men. I've looked at plenty of evidence, and refutations of each. Sometimes it takes acceptance of certain possibilities to even realize occurrences. I've noticed that certain people just don't accept certain possibilities.

If you start from viewing anything as imperfect, you're never going to see anything other than that.

 

[Me Myself]

Sin isn't genetic. Salvation isn't earned - it's free.

Perfection is possible, just not with men. I've looked at plenty of evidence, and refutations of each. Sometimes it takes acceptance of certain possibilities to even realize occurrences. I've noticed that certain people just don't accept certain possibilities.

If you start from viewing anything as imperfect, you're never going to see anything other than that.

So you don´t see our propensity to sin to be a fruit of Adam and Eve´s work? (that is what I meant by sin being genetic: that it is inherited. It was not meant to be a literal statement)

 

[Sleeppy]

So you don´t see our propensity to sin to be a fruit of Adam and Eve´s work? (that is what I meant by sin being genetic: that it is inherited. It was not meant to be a literal statement)

I wanted to make that clarification. Yes, that was inherited.. like some inherit alcoholism.

 

[Me Myself]

I wanted to make that clarification. Yes, that was inherited.. like some inherit alcoholism.

Then re-read my whole argument. because it still stands.

*correction for understanding*

He created a system that permited sin to be *inherited*, while salvation is not.

According to your belief, his incompetent management of Adam and Eve´s betrayal caused me to be born with an imposibility of purity, and even then be found guilty for this lack of purity unless I believe without any reasonable evidence in a specific doctrine and person of salvation.

The system sucks. The God cannot be perfect.

 

[Sleeppy]

Then re-read my whole argument. because it still stands.

*correction for understanding*

Clarify the argument.

 

[Me Myself]

Clarify the argument.

Is clear. It´s his fault that sin is inheritable. After all, if he wished to actually judge me fairly then he wouldn´t have left me with a flaw that was actually the fault of my great great great etc grandparents.

So I have no decision in being born flawed and with the imposibility of not sinning, but I do have to actually choose to belief an attonement I wouldn´t even need in the first place if I wasn´t bron with the punishment of someone other than me.

If the attonement must be "accepted" to work, then that should also be the nature of the sin. If I don´t need to accept the sin for it to affect my nature, it is immoral for me to need to accept the redemption for me to be inocent.