Original Sin

[Heathen Hammer]

I'm saying they did know it was wrong. They were warned.

They did not understand the warning because they were at that point incapable of knowing Good from Evil. They were incapable of understanding the concept of 'disobedience'.

 

[Sleeppy]

where does it say they decided they were naked?


i disagree. we've come a long way in regards to human rights


how did they know it was wrong when they didn't know they were naked?

After they ate the fruit, their eyes were opened to all sorts of delusion.

Have we? Or are certain people now in power to make key decisions, for the masses?

They weren't naked, needing covering. Why would they feel ashamed of how they were created?

 

[Sleeppy]

They did not understand the warning because they were at that point incapable of knowing Good from Evil. They were incapable of understanding the concept of 'disobedience'.

Not true.

They didn't defend their decision by saying they didn't know what they were doing. Eve said she forgot. She didn't actually forget, because the snake was telling her that God was lying.

 

[waitasec]

After they ate the fruit, their eyes were opened to all sorts of delusion.

so they weren't really naked? i'm not sure what you mean...

Have we? Or are certain people now in power to make key decisions, for the masses?

women's equality, the abolishment of slavery...for example, are not an improvement?

They weren't naked, needing covering. Why would they feel ashamed of how they were created?

as soon as they ate their eyes were opened...they didn't decide they were naked...they were...

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Not true.

They didn't defend their decision by saying they didn't know what they were doing. Eve said she forgot. She didn't actually forget, because the snake was telling her that God was lying.

That was only after they gained the knowledge of how to lie from eating the apple. The point you are trying to refute is from before.

I'm afraid there's no real defense for this.

And, God did actually lie, and the snake did actually tell the truth. Small point.

 

[waitasec]

Not true.

They didn't defend their decision by saying they didn't know what they were doing. Eve said she forgot. She didn't actually forget, because the snake was telling her that God was lying.

no she didn't say she forgot...
she said:
“The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

 

[Sleeppy]

That was only after they gained the knowledge of how to lie from eating the apple. The point you are trying to refute is from before.

I'm afraid there's no real defense for this.

And, God did actually lie, and the snake did actually tell the truth. Small point.

What?

God didn't lie, the snake did.

 

[waitasec]

That was only after they gained the knowledge of how to lie from eating the apple. The point you are trying to refute is from before.

I'm afraid there's no real defense for this.

yup...

 

[waitasec]

What?

God didn't lie, the snake did.

what makes you think the snake lied?

 

[Sleeppy]

no she didn't say she forgot...
she said:
“The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

This translation is more accurate. Young's Literal.

And Jehovah God saith to the woman, `What [is] this thou hast done?' and the woman saith, `The serpent hath caused me to forget -- and I do eat.'

 

[Heathen Hammer]

What?

God didn't lie, the snake did.

God lied. they did not die the day they ate of the fruit. I recognize the attempt at reconciling this saying God meant they gained the potential for death that day, but, that really doesn't fly with any legitimacy.

 

[Sleeppy]

what makes you think the snake lied?

And the serpent saith unto the woman, `Dying, ye do not die, for God doth know that in the day of your eating of it -- your eyes have been opened, and ye have been as God, knowing good and evil.'

Which part do you say is true?

 

[waitasec]

This translation is more accurate. Young's Literal.

And Jehovah God saith to the woman, `What [is] this thou hast done?' and the woman saith, `The serpent hath caused me to forget -- and I do eat.'

actually the hebrew bible says
13. And the Lord God said to the woman, "What is this that you have done?" And the woman said, "The serpent enticed me, and I ate."
Genesis - Chapter 3 (Parshah Berei****) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

 

[Heathen Hammer]

All of it appears to be true, actually.

 

[Sleeppy]

God lied. they did not die the day they ate of the fruit. I recognize the attempt at reconciling this saying God meant they gained the potential for death that day, but, that really doesn't fly with any legitimacy.

Ok. Quote the passage that says they would die that day. I can't find it.

 

[waitasec]

And the serpent saith unto the woman, `Dying, ye do not die, for God doth know that in the day of your eating of it -- your eyes have been opened, and ye have been as God, knowing good and evil.'

Which part do you say is true?

but god knew he would offer eternal life in spite of the fall...

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Ok. Quote the passage that says they would die that day. I can't find it.

But of the fruit of the tree
which [is] in the midst of
the garden, God hath said,
Ye shall not eat of it, neither
shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Gen 3:3
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen3.pdf

Death same day, even if you merely touch it.

Original Hebrew, not modern Christian 'translation'

It's not a real warning to advise 'well, maybe you'll die from it, 900 years or so in the future.'

 

[Sleeppy]

actually the hebrew bible says
13. And the Lord God said to the woman, "What is this that you have done?" And the woman said, "The serpent enticed me, and I ate."
Genesis - Chapter 3 (Parshah Berei****) - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

beguiled me
nasha' (naw-shaw')
to lead astray, i.e. (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce -- beguile, deceive, greatly, utterly.

Genesis 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Lead astray from the truth. Deluded from the truth. Seduced from the truth. Deceived from the truth.

 

[Sleeppy]

But of the fruit of the tree
which [is] in the midst of
the garden, God hath said,
Ye shall not eat of it, neither
shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Gen 3:3
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/OTpdf/gen3.pdf

Death same day, even if you merely touch it.

Original Hebrew, not modern Christian 'translation'

It's not a real warning to advise 'well, maybe you'll die from it, 900 years or so in the future.'

Where does it say "same day?" I'm not seeing it.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

beguiled me
nasha' (naw-shaw')
to lead astray, i.e. (mentally) to delude, or (morally) to seduce -- beguile, deceive, greatly, utterly.

Genesis 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

Lead astray from the truth. Deluded from the truth. Seduced from the truth. Deceived from the truth.

I am reading this exchange but as I mentioned earlier, this is irrelevant, because you are still speaking of a time BEFORE the fruit was eaten, as if they possessed understanding possible only AFTER the fruit was eaten.

You appear to be avoiding the actual issue.