• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Original Sin

waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Cesar said:
yes, God did know He would sacrificed Himself for humanity. As a matter of fact, that was the very purpose of man's fall. How does it make Him a liar when He said they would die and they did indeed die?
Click to expand...

that also means god set man up to fail.
 
C

Cesar

Member
waitasec said:
because "you shall surely die" doesn't necessarily happen?
Click to expand...

That is a future time. So He was telling them they would die, which they did. They did die spiritually and, eventually, physically too. I really fail to get your point...
 
Sleeppy

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
waitasec said:
but you are looking at this account through a christian perspective...
the jewish tradition does not believe in original sin, from what i understand.
Click to expand...

I don't know what they believe, in that regard. But, I assure you they don't think God was lying at Genesis 2:17.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Cesar said:
That is a future time. So He was telling them they would die, which they did. They did die spiritually and, eventually, physically too. I really fail to get your point...
Click to expand...

so then you do know what happened to adam then, i thought you didn't?
 
C

Cesar

Member
waitasec said:
so then you do know what happened to adam then, i thought you didn't?
Click to expand...

Yes, they died spiritually. What I meant earlier to say is that I didn't know whether they had repented (after their spiritual death, obviously). I don't know if they're saved or not, but they died, as God had said.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Sleeppy said:
I don't know what they believe, in that regard. But, I assure you they don't think God was lying at Genesis 2:17.
Click to expand...

but "the fall" isn't "a fall" in their tradition...it's when man was lifted up and gained knowledge.
the way christians look at it leaves room for this scenario.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Cesar said:
Yes, they died spiritually. What I meant earlier to say is that I didn't know whether they had repented (after their spiritual death, obviously). I don't know if they're saved or not, but they died, as God had said.
Click to expand...

well being that god took care of them after the fall i suppose that they are/or will go to heaven... which begs the question, why were they taken care of with out the atonement of christ while we are in need of it?
 
Sleeppy

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
waitasec said:
but "the fall" isn't "a fall" in their tradition...it's when man was lifted up and gained knowledge.
the way christians look at it leaves room for this scenario.
Click to expand...

You're moving from point to point too quickly. Let me state this, first:

Jewish tradition doesn't involve God lying. If anyone says it does, they're the ones lying.


I don't see how their tradition could possibly do with being lifted up. Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden and punished. Where are you getting that information?
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Sleeppy said:
You're moving from point to point too quickly. Let me state this, first:

Jewish tradition doesn't involve God lying. If anyone says it does, they're the ones lying.
Click to expand...
jewish tradition doesn't but the christian one does...

I don't see how their tradition could possibly do with being lifted up. Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden and punished. Where are you getting that information?
Click to expand...

go to their DIR and ask...
 
C

Cesar

Member
waitasec said:
well being that god took care of them after the fall i suppose that they are/or will go to heaven... which begs the question, why were they taken care of with out the atonement of christ while we are in need of it?
Click to expand...

I will rather address virtuous Hebrew people, before Christ. Prior to His coming, they would do sacrifices in order to atone for their sins. They were saved by their faith, but they didn't enter Heaven as a result of it, because the ransom hadn't been paid by Christ. At the Harrowing of hell, Christ released His people from death and exalted them.
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Cesar said:
I will rather address virtuous Hebrew people, before Christ. Prior to His coming, they would do sacrifices in order to atone for their sins. They were saved by their faith, but they didn't enter Heaven as a result of it, because the ransom hadn't been paid by Christ. At the Harrowing of hell, Christ released His people from death and exalted them.
Click to expand...

god did not like human sacrifices though...

What Jews Believe
 
waitasec

waitasec

Veteran Member
Sleeppy said:
Obviously not. I'm Christian, telling you that God does not lie.
Click to expand...
that is one of the reasons why i question the literal interpretation of the fall


Sure.. Ok. Should be interesting, either way.
Click to expand...

it should be.

this is how i see it;
the NT is to the hebrew bible as what the book of mormon is to the NT
 
H

harun abdul azeeze

New Member
Allah says "say: shall i seek a lord other than Allah,while he is the lord of all things? No person earns any (sin) except against himself (only),and no bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another.Then unto your lord is your return so he will tell you that wherein you have been differing." surah al-an am
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top