Original Sin

[Godobeyer]

Here is something that bugs me and I would like to discuss. It seems that Christianity (perhaps other religions also, I am unsure) teaches that we are born with "original sin", which is inherited because of Adam and Eve's sin in the Garden of Eden. WE are held responsible for the sins of SOMEONE ELSE. I cannot see how this belief makes sense.

First, if god is loving and forgiving, why would he hold an everlasting grudge against humans? If it is so that we must accept Christ, it seems kind of like a set up...

Second, why should we even be held responsible for the sins of another in general? Nobody is responsible for the sins of another in any other case outside of this one. Why is this one held against all of humanity? Again, it seems like a set up.

Discuss

Adam and Eve sin
Origin sin that Jesus (pbuh) sacrifice himself to God (the beliefs of Christians) !!!
but Adam know how to sacrifice to God (told in the bible) , because Adam which propose to his childern "Abal" and "Habile" to sacrifice to God !!!!

 

[Thief]

a religious philosophy which holds that reason and observation of the natural world, without the need for organized religion, can determine that the universe is the product of an all-powerful creator. According to deists, the creator rarely, if ever, either intervenes in human affairs or suspends the natural laws of the universe. Deists typically reject supernatural events such as prophecy and miracles, tending instead to assert that a god (or "the Supreme Architect") does not alter the universe by intervening in it.

Deism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thank you.

I suppose I lean more to deism than not....yet....
I do suspect an intervention when God chooses.
Man, left to his own would still be an animal.
Having been through some manipulation...
there still seems occasion to 'point the way'.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I classify myself as deist. I classify Jesus as deist as well.

Yeshua sounds more like a Gnostic to me.....

 

[Prophet]

Yeshua sounds more like a Gnostic to me.....

Same thing.

 

[waitasec]

Thank you.

I suppose I lean more to deism than not....yet....
I do suspect an intervention when God chooses.
Man, left to his own would still be an animal.
Having been through some manipulation...
there still seems occasion to 'point the way'.

my pleasure.

i have no qualms about man being an animal.

knowledge of knowledge becomes feedback...or
an endless image of oneself in a hall of mirrors...
as it ultimately cancels out the original source
by recycling a copy of a copy.

 

[Thief]

my pleasure.

i have no qualms about man being an animal.

knowledge of knowledge becomes feedback...or
an endless image of oneself in a hall of mirrors...
as it ultimately cancels out the original source
by recycling a copy of a copy.

The actual cause of cancer btw.

That we have no argument the animal of Man...we are as we breath....
The ultimate image stands from the dust when we die.
Hopefully the angels will see a well made reflection spirit.

 

[Thief]

I classify myself as deist. I classify Jesus as deist as well.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect."

If Waitasec is correct about the definition of a deist....
believing in a Spirit of non-intervention....
Then Jesus would not be a deist.

He would instead be quite the opposite.
That Deity Himself....storms dissipate as He speaks....the dead walk...etc..

The rest of your post is spot on.

 

[waitasec]

The actual cause of cancer btw.

That we have no argument the animal of Man...we are as we breath....
The ultimate image stands from the dust when we die.
Hopefully the angels will see a well made reflection spirit.

if the angels see a reflection then perhaps they cannot see the original source.

 

[waitasec]

If Waitasec is correct about the definition of a deist....
believing in a Spirit of non-intervention....
Then Jesus would not be a deist.

He would instead be quite the opposite.
That Deity Himself....storms dissipate as He speaks....the dead walk...etc..

i agree.

 

[Prophet]

If Waitasec is correct about the definition of a deist....
believing in a Spirit of non-intervention....
Then Jesus would not be a deist.

He would instead be quite the opposite.
That Deity Himself....storms dissipate as He speaks....the dead walk...etc..

The rest of your post is spot on.

I call into question all magical claims regarding the historical Jesus. I'm suggesting that he didn't perform any physical miracles such as weather manipulation or reanimation of corpses (others or his own), nor was he conceived by magical means.

 

[Thief]

I call into question all magical claims regarding the historical Jesus. I'm suggesting that he didn't perform any physical miracles such as weather manipulation or reanimation of corpses (others or his own), nor was he conceived by magical means.

Do a thread op...see you there.

 

[waitasec]

I call into question all magical claims regarding the historical Jesus. I'm suggesting that he didn't perform any physical miracles such as weather manipulation or reanimation of corpses (others or his own), nor was he conceived by magical means.

i doubt a deity would be concerned with how we treated one another...
thats something WE are concerned with.

 

[Prophet]

I believe it is a great misconception furthered by its opponents that the deistic view of God paints Him as a being who would take the time to punish evildoers and reward good if He were more concerned.

Understand what Jesus is saying in the verse I quoted. Jesus is saying that God's perfection is why he causes his sun to rise and rains to fall on the just and unjust alike. God does not punish or reward. The reason is simple. Introducing external motivations for morality induces hypocrisy. Selflessness is the basis for morality. If you are merely acting selfless for selfish rewards (even in an afterlife) your morality is a paradox. Your selflessness is selfish.

Acting is hypocrisy. Being selfless is the goal.

 

[Thief]

I believe it is a great misconception furthered by its opponents that the deistic view of God paints Him as a being who would take the time to punish evildoers and reward good if He were more concerned.

Understand what Jesus is saying in the verse I quoted. Jesus is saying that God's perfection is why he causes his sun to rise and rains to fall on the just and unjust alike. God does not punish or reward. The reason is simple. Introducing external motivations for morality induces hypocrisy. Selflessness is the basis for morality. If you are merely acting selfless for selfish rewards (even in an afterlife) your morality is a paradox. Your selflessness is selfish.

Acting is hypocrisy. Being selfless is the goal.

Altogether wrong.
God's creation operates not because of perfection.
Perfection is not a cause.

All that God has created has only one motivation...to say..."I AM".

This would be the expression of 'self'.
and the the creation is a reflection of it's Creator.
God created, and then declared all things to be good.
Then He created Man.
And it was Jesus would said...
'Do not call Me good...no one is good but the Father'

As for Man learning to be selfless....that's really wrong.
You are here to become a unique person.
Your linear existence insures it.
Denying who you are, would be a paradox.

 

[Thief]

i doubt a deity would be concerned with how we treated one another...
thats something WE are concerned with.

And we should be concerned....when belief in afterlife is applied.
Do unto others as you would have it done unto you.

because it will be....done unto you as you have done unto others.

Peace in heaven...as soon as the 'doing' is 'done'.

But you don't belief....so I doubt if you're concerned.

 

[waitasec]

And we should be concerned....when belief in afterlife is applied.
Do unto others as you would have it done unto you.

because it will be....done unto you as you have done unto others.

Peace in heaven...as soon as the 'doing' is 'done'.

But you don't belief....so I doubt if you're concerned.

the way i see how the afterlife will be in this theology, since you brought it up...
is a free for all, as one is ignorant of the moral consequences of their actions...
when god brings it all back to it's original state

ignorance is bliss.

but the reality of it all is
how we treat one another...
is something WE are concerned with.

 

[Prophet]

Altogether wrong.
God's creation operates not because of perfection.
Perfection is not a cause.

All that God has created has only one motivation...to say..."I AM".

This would be the expression of 'self'.
and the the creation is a reflection of it's Creator.
God created, and then declared all things to be good.
Then He created Man.
And it was Jesus would said...
'Do not call Me good...no one is good but the Father'

As for Man learning to be selfless....that's really wrong.
You are here to become a unique person.
Your linear existence insures it.
Denying who you are, would be a paradox.

I've given up crushing fundies in debate for Lent.

 

[Thief]

the way i see how the afterlife will be in this theology, since you brought it up...
is a free for all, as one is ignorant of the moral consequences of their actions...
when god brings it all back to it's original state

ignorance is bliss.

but the reality of it all is
how we treat one another...
is something WE are concerned with.

And this is your belief of the afterlife?

Fair enough we can regard the afterlife as an assumption.
but to further assume a state of chaos?.....nay.

And with some hierarchy in place it would be unlikely.

Back to topic?

 

[riley2112]

I believe it is a great misconception furthered by its opponents that the deistic view of God paints Him as a being who would take the time to punish evildoers and reward good if He were more concerned.

Understand what Jesus is saying in the verse I quoted. Jesus is saying that God's perfection is why he causes his sun to rise and rains to fall on the just and unjust alike. God does not punish or reward. The reason is simple. Introducing external motivations for morality induces hypocrisy. Selflessness is the basis for morality. If you are merely acting selfless for selfish rewards (even in an afterlife) your morality is a paradox. Your selflessness is selfish.

Acting is hypocrisy. Being selfless is the goal.

I have never heard it put better:clap

 

[waitasec]

And this is your belief of the afterlife?

Fair enough we can regard the afterlife as an assumption.
but to further assume a state of chaos?.....nay.

And with some hierarchy in place it would be unlikely.

Back to topic?

when one assumes...there are no rules....